Playing second fiddle

[incognitus]

I am wondering... I always used to paint the map, but now with all the patches and DLCs that has been made very tedious to do. I lost interest in CK2 for a while because of this. Now I'm thinking... is it actually possible, to play in a way where you never become independent, yes grow large and powerful? Are their realistic ways to help your liege expand his power? Let's say we start on the lowest tier as a single-provine count (provided we still cannot play barons) in an independent duchy. Is it possible to help your liege, the duke, to become an emperor over time and drag you along to become a king over time? Sounds interesting to be a fiercly loyal vassal saving your lords ass time and again...

 

[klopkr]

Yep! There's absolutely nothing keeping you from just staying a vassal! It can make vassal management a bit more annoying though since you can't go over king tier.

One of my favourite starts is as a vassal of the pope and never becoming independent. A vassal of the Western Protectorate is really fun too! You're actually literally china!

Once you're big enough you can basically bully your liege around since you'll control most of their actual territory. The hard part is dealing with the absolutely stupid things the AI does on occasion. Expect to be saving your leiges ass in more than one bad war! Also keep in mind you will be weaker than independent realms of the same size because you lose some tax and levy to your liege.

 

[Gnorrosch]

You can support your liege in several ways: Be on his council and use favours to improve the realm, giving him money when he is in a tight spot, or offering to join any wars he is involved in (in that case, you are considered a full ally and can send your whole levy plus retinue against your lieges enemies). You can also play the marriage game for him in certain regards, by inviting highly prestigious families to your court and marrying / betrothing them to female dynasty members if you worry the duchy might otherwise pass out of the dynasty.

 

[incognitus]

Good points made! Ah, I had actually forgotten, that you can't have an emperor be the vassal of another emperor...

 

[Rags17]

Good points made! Ah, I had actually forgotten, that you can't have an emperor be the vassal of another emperor...

Yes, but it can be a permanent tributary of one !

 

[incognitus]

Yes, but it can be a permanent tributary of one !

How does that apply to my situation, where I want to limit myself to remaining a vassal?

 

[Rags17]

How does that apply to my situation, where I want to limit myself to remaining a vassal?

not relevant I suppose, I just saw the comment about being an Empire tier vassal and remembered that tributaries can be any rank.

 

[Woifee]

You can help your empire by replacing incompet emperors with good ones trough faction.

Don’t go elective tough, the electors will vote for you and then you are emperor.

If you and your liege lord are catholic and your liege gers himself an Antipope you can easily swith your religious heas by starting the antiking faction. This way you can get more claims trough pope.

 

[IanReSc]

As fun and entertaining as it sounds, the AI never shows gratitude. So it can become quite frustrating seeing your liege revoking your stuff, because you are more powerful than he is.

 

[incognitus]

As fun and entertaining as it sounds, the AI never shows gratitude. So it can become quite frustrating seeing your liege revoking your stuff, because you are more powerful than he is.

Very true. I guess in that case one could refuse...

 

[Gnorrosch]

As fun and entertaining as it sounds, the AI never shows gratitude. So it can become quite frustrating seeing your liege revoking your stuff, because you are more powerful than he is.

In many cases, I find it quite easy to stay strong enough to boss the other vasalls around, but weak enough that your liege does not feel threatened. Except for very small kingdoms like Bretagne, where the king can mostly hold all counties himself, kings will leave ordinary dukes (in case of really big kingdoms even double-dukes) well alone.