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WJS

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Okay, so yes, I'm a new player, and no, Saxony isn't a recommended nation for a new player, but my wife is from Saxony so I've got a very soft spot for the place. I've tried a few tactics and felt like reporting my findings.

Saxony is a single-state minor with 300K population sandwiched between Prussia and Austria in 1836. Bad position, and easily at risk for annexation into the NGF/Germany. There are a few unique things about the country, though, that make it interesting.
  • You start with one Iron resource and two Coal resources. You start with no farmland.
  • You are in Austria's sphere, and that fact is one of the thing that prevents Prussia from forming the NGF.
  • You start with a fabric factory. In HoD, it will fail.
  • Your literacy is an impressive 80%.
  • In the first few years, there will be two events that grant you a lot of prestige (5.5 for each event).
Austria will not be able to keep you, but you can stay in their sphere long enough to have some successes. Because of the freebie prestige gains and high literacy, you can quickly become a Secondary Power if you can keep your finances and industry under control. Here have been actions that have helped:
  • Since the fabric factory will fail, don't bother subsidizing it. Let it close, but don't remove it. It will reopen when it can.
  • Get a cement factory as soon as you can. With any luck, investors will attempt to start one.
  • Clean Coal, with its bonuses to Coal and Iron output, is an easy first pick to research.
  • If you fight Prussia or Austria, you will lose. So, don't worry about dropping your military in order to make the budget work. I wouldn't disband your forces, and if you're looking to conquer something,
  • You have no farmers. Some events will have a choice that gives your farmers high militancy. It's an easy choice with no downside.
  • If you're looking for an easy conquest target to get that second state, ally with Austria and get permission to march troops across their land. The easiest target to conquer that no one cares about is Montenegro. Krakow or any other German state is usually allied with one of the GPs and is not recommended. One other location I'm considering but haven't tried yet is the Emilia region of the Papal States. It gets you a port and angers France, so it might be not too much trouble. Certainly France won't be able to attack your core.
  • You'll work to get Idealism as soon as possible once 1840 occurs. Before then, you can easily get Clean Coal and another Level 2--you might need a Commerce tech for the money, but Romanticism is a good choice too because you'll be getting free prestige anyway. There's even time to pick up Experimental Railroad before 1840 if you want, but you might want to save your research points for Idealism first.
  • It's possible to become the #8 GP for a bit on Prestige. It's worth doing if you suspect the NGF will be made soon, but don't force yourself to make the effort to stay there. The main goal is to break out of the sphere without making Prussia mad.
I haven't done much more, so I don't know how to play past the early years, but I still like talking it through. Any thoughts?
 

WJS

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Meh... just play as Prussia or Austria, playing as Saxony ensures gridlock in Germany, preventing a German power rising.
Nope, that's no fun and defeats the exercise.
 

martianq

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Nope, that's no fun and defeats the exercise.

Trouble with the exercise is that Saxony (and all other German minors with the exception of Bavaria) are two weak and surrounded by GP's to really do anything. Saxony being landlocked makes things even worse.
The only way to make headway is to game the system by using a much bigger ally to conquer land for you which is incredibly gamey.
Sure you can try to cling onto GP status but by the time the 1870's come, Japans gonna westernise, Italy's gonna unify etc, and prestige alone, ain't gonna cut it.

Looking at Saxony specifically the most fun I see that can be had would be to play Prussia/Austria off on each other, its historical and if you're lucky you might be able to grab Silesia or Bohemia.
After that though, I don't really know, you'll still be landlocked, you won't have enough power to unify Germany until 1900 and by that you'll be so far behind theres no point.

IMO Italian states are much more fun than German states because theres a much more equal playing field.
 

RELee

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I wish you the best of luck. I would find playing Saxony extremely frustrating. I don't think I have that kind of patience.
 

WJS

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So I've tried this further, and I have in fact managed to become a Great Power with Saxony. However, it turns out to be far from simple.

Thanks to Albert Lortzing, the Semperoper, and the eventual defeat of the Spring of Nations, Saxony makes a ton of prestige in the early years, and since they sit on a bunch of Coal and Iron, they can build up industry reasonably quickly. As a result, Saxony can be ranked #8 or #7 all by itself. The question becomes, how do you get the second state? Ideally, you'd want to pry Magdeburg off Prussia or something, but that can be nigh-impossible. What I did was let myself get sphered by Prussia, stay close to them and build up my power, then during a Prussian war, I broke free from the sphere, allied with Austria again, then puppeted Two Sicilies with Austrian assistance. Then, I sent Two Sicilies to conquer Sinai from Egypt. It gave me a bunch of farmland I needed, counted as my second state, and still gave me enough time and support to conquer Serbia.

So, at this point, Saxony is still tiny and broken up into pieces, but became a Great Power. The biggest problem at this point, however, is staying alive. I do not recommend sphering any German state, because that just triggers Brothers' Wars against you (no need to Assert Hegemony if you have no German spherelings). Having far-off states keeps Austria and Prussia from just attacking to conquer you.

Still figuring out how to grow from there. I've been slowly attempting to sphere the Italian states.
 

WJS

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Exactly. Go to war with a minor german state and keep it occupied till an revolt army rises or just hope for the best.
But I've also seen successful Pan-Nationalist uprisings end up with no consolidation. In one game, Lübeck fell to rebels, Prussia got "The Lübeckian Question", and... nothing happened. Also, I'm a GP, but Prussia and Austria are also still larger GPs. Not sure what would happen.
 

Aardvark Bellay

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But I've also seen successful Pan-Nationalist uprisings end up with no consolidation. In one game, Lübeck fell to rebels, Prussia got "The Lübeckian Question", and... nothing happened. Also, I'm a GP, but Prussia and Austria are also still larger GPs. Not sure what would happen.
Let me quote the Wiki
...If they succeed in occupying their target, a random Germanic Great Power that is not Austria will be offered the crown. Accepting the crown turns the country into Germany, makes it a constitutional monarchy and annexes all non-Great-Power German states. An AI Prussia will almost always refuse the offer, unless it already has a quite liberal government...

So Austria will not and Prussia very unlikely accept if they get the event.

Just my 2cents on the fly
 

WJS

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I'll keep it in mind and see what happens. I did attempt to puppet Hanover, occupied the whole territory, and nothing happened, but that can easily be just the luck of the draw.

Also, I ended up sphering Holstein in that war, activating a Brothers' War by Austria. So, now I'm Hostile with all German minors, and have just moved on. Or I might load an earlier save.
 

Woifee

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I'll keep it in mind and see what happens. I did attempt to puppet Hanover, occupied the whole territory, and nothing happened, but that can easily be just the luck of the draw.

Also, I ended up sphering Holstein in that war, activating a Brothers' War by Austria. So, now I'm Hostile with all German minors, and have just moved on. Or I might load an earlier save.

I'm not sure, but there might be a technology the victim needs first.
 

Iron Chariots

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, then puppeted Two Sicilies with Austrian assistance. Then, I sent Two Sicilies to conquer Sinai from Egypt. It gave me a bunch of farmland I needed, counted as my second state, and still gave me enough time and support to conquer Serbia.
This is more or less exactly what I was going to suggest. I started my Krakow game with a day 1 puppet justification on Two Sicilies, then used them to take a few concessions off of Egypt and Sokoto, and figured a similar strategy would work for Saxony.
 

WJS

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Yes, I'm a weakling, but I'm doing okay. Unfortunately, it'll be five years before I can attack Prussia again.

1C99A95995B7499AFDB8118D5327600DDDBF560C
 

KevinG

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If you're already doing gamey stuff like puppeting two sicilies to conquer random uncivs, why not go all the way and just start taking chunks off China? That's the easiest way to break the game and become #1 GP with tiny OPM countries. Also rushing non-medicine related industry techs is not really the way to powergame in Vicky 2.
 

LiberiusX

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Hah, that's funny, I don't think I've ever seen Morocco partitioned between two Powers.