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lordofthemark

Captain
Mar 16, 2005
439
0
Playing Bohemia, grand campaign, in nomine.

You start as HRE. Seems like a good idea to stay HRE. 4 of the electors want to vote for Cleves, none for me. So I need to do something before the empire dies.

I've seen advice to vassalize electors. Its difficult to diplo vassal, so that means force vassal? If I'm fighting to force vassal, I can't respond to the several calls to arms I get, can I? Bohemia can't really fight multiple wars early?

OTOH I can try to improve relations with all the HRE states. Royal marriages help with that, and are easy to get as emperor. But if I'm going to try a claim throne on Poland (also something I've seen suggested) I don't want a lot of royal marriages, right?

It all seems rather difficult for a country that at first glance looks like it has a strong start.

Your thoughts appreciated.
 
There are several ways to strengthen your role as Emperor. One is to vassalize electors, forcibly if necessary as the opportunity presents itself. Second is to bribe the electors. Third is to lower the prestige of your prospective rivals by backing their enemies in wars.

If the electors are voting for Cleves (which is normally a tiny OPM), either Cleves has grown into a serious contender, or else ALL of the bigger competitors (including Bohemia) have way too much Infamy. Hover over the electors to see WHY they're voting for Cleves instead of you. My suspicion is that you've either got way too much Infamy, or you're holding too many illegal non-core HRE provinces.

The Emperor typically has one major problem in EU3: he keeps on getting free provinces that were being illegally held by other HRE members (or non-members), and those aren't necessarily his cores, so they build Infamy as long as he holds them. Releasing those provinces as vassals, or selling/gifting them back to whoever has cores there, can mitigate that problem in MOST cases (several Baltic provinces end up losing their cores, so you cannot get rid of them). The trick is to absorb illegal provinces only one or two at a time, and rely on Royal Marriages and forced Personal Unions to inherit the other HRE states LEGALLY, so you immediately get cores.

Bohemia does have a strong start in EU3, but no stronger than several other major contenders. The Imperial Throne is not an "I win" button in the early game, although it can become one as you pass reforms and strengthen the office, until you inherit the entire HRE.
 
Thanks

I am pretty sure I still had zero infamy, I checked who the electors were supporting right at the start. Not going to finish that game, but will check when I start as Bohemia again.

This "rely on Royal Marriages and forced Personal Unions" I want to do that only a few royal marriages at a time, right? Because "Claim throne" (which I need to do to get forced PU, right?) will hurt my relations with all countries I have RMs with, right? Also declaring war on a country I have a Royal Marriage with (or breaking the marriage) will give me a stab hit.
 
Not at all.

First, each Royal Marriage gives you a chance to inherit their throne outright if their king dies without a legitimate heir. The more Royal Marriages, the better, although I have NEVER inherited the throne of a vassal. Having high diplomatic skill and high Prestige can put your candidate at or near the top of the succession list. In several HRE games, I've "accidentally" and unexpectedly inherited more than one country that way. A pop-up message appears, and you're suddenly several provinces richer. If you're both in the HRE, you get their core provinces as your own cores. That is VERY powerful.

Second, regardless of whether you have a RM or not, if a country's king lacks legitimacy, you can send spies to attempt to find or forge a quasi-legal claim on their throne, and then fight a war to enforce that claim. In my last AAR, playing Hungary, I managed to inherit most of the major HRE powers by presenting "Obscure Documents" and forcing them into a PU. A few kings later, and it's my land.

Third, when your own king dies, most or all of the existing RMs will be negated. THAT is when you claim a throne, because there are no (or few) other RMs to suffer damaged relations. After you make the claim, you are then free to restore as many of your former RMs as possible. In most games, I end up with 10-20 RMs at a time. At +0.5 Legitimacy each per year, you can recover from low Legitimacy (such as if/when you change your form of government) rather quickly.

[ Sorry, I just noticed that you're playing the IN expansion, not DW. That changes the mechanics significantly. Check the EU3 wiki for the changes. ]
 
Yes, HTTT really altered the inheritance and HRE mechanics, mostly for the better. DW was a lot less disruptive, other than for Japan, and I'd call it "optional" except for the high proportion of mods which depend on it. At this point just about every mod considers that you have the full set.

I think the basic inheritance thing still applies in IN, so having more RMs means more chances, although you may have to fight a succession war over it. Those are gone in the later expansions, and I sort-of miss them. Spies unearthing "obscure documents" is probably out in your case though, because that depends on low legitimacy, which doesn't exist in the earlier expansions. The trick of not claiming a throne until your old king dies and your new king has no other RMs to sour should still be valid. I'm assuming that in almost all cases, Prestige counts, so your odds of being at or near the top of the succession chain should still be affected by it and your King's Diplomacy skill.