Playing Belgium as it should have acted

[Sunforged General]

I decided to try a game where I play Belgium. Since I cant ever hope to produce enough divisions to defend my self, I decided to spam forts all along my northern and eastern border. By late 1939 I had lvl 4-5 forts all along the border. Surprisingly these forts could hold the Germans back, provided the French and British send their troops in immediately to help me withstand the Germans., which the AI surprisingly did do. Germany was defeated by 1944.

I think historically, had Belgium not left the French alliance, and invested in heavy fortifications (more than they did), effectively extending the Maginot line into Belgium, Germany could not have taken the country, since by the time the Germans attack the French and British armies would be in Belgium dug in with strong fortifications already built for them.

Effectively, Germany's triumph in 1940 was largely due to a Belgian mistake.

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Should have based on what? An assumption that demilitarized country, on a verge of economic collapse would soon muster army strong enough to threaten the rest of the world and go on a warmongering rampage? Way I remember, not to long ago a certain politician was laughed at for proposing to wall off south border.

 

[Tarroque]

I think historically, had Belgium not left the French alliance, and invested in heavy fortifications (more than they did), effectively extending the Maginot line into Belgium, Germany could not have taken the country, since by the time the Germans attack the French and British armies would be in Belgium dug in with strong fortifications already built for them.

Effectively, Germany's triumph in 1940 was largely due to a Belgian mistake.

Belgium did mainly invest in fortifications, but these were captured with next to no casualties by paratroopers. As for extending the Maginot line all the way up through Belgium, this was never an option due to fiscal constraints. Remember that Belgium and France were both war-ravaged, plundered, and effectively bankrupt by 1919. Now add to that the Great Depression where Belgium was unable to find work for up to a quarter of their population, and the historical experience of fortresses in WW1 which while expensive for Belgium to construct, and ineffective in stopping the Germans, would only end up as a benefit to France.

 

[Emren]

I think historically, had Belgium not left the French alliance, and invested in heavy fortifications (more than they did), effectively extending the Maginot line into Belgium, Germany could not have taken the country, since by the time the Germans attack the French and British armies would be in Belgium dug in with strong fortifications already built for them.

Effectively, Germany's triumph in 1940 was largely due to a Belgian mistake.

In addition to the other posters' comments, I also believe it would have been possible for the Germans to simply roll through the Netherlands along the border with Belgium, north of an extended Maginot Line, and then swing south and continue to the coast.

 

[H.H.Holmes]

I think historically, had Belgium not left the French alliance, and invested in heavy fortifications (more than they did), effectively extending the Maginot line into Belgium, Germany could not have taken the country, since by the time the Germans attack the French and British armies would be in Belgium dug in with strong fortifications already built for them.

Effectively, Germany's triumph in 1940 was largely due to a Belgian mistake.

The strongest fort in the world, at that time, was overcome in hours
( see Eben-Emael wiki page)
I dont think that any line of fortifications can effectively hold off an army of extremely well trained, modern and well prepared troops.
Not the Maginot line, Sevastopol fort, Stalin line, Siegfried line or the €206 billion ( in todays currency) atlantic wall, etc...
Eventually they will find a way in or around.
Btw: I live some 20 km from the Eben-Emael fort. It is very impressive to visit !

 

[Eh up me duck]

Yeah...no. Forts in HOI 4 are way more powerful than they ever would have been IRL. Static fortifications, even extensive ones, will do nothing to stop advancing armour. Forts in France/Belgium were designed to be effective against WW1 style battles that many Western leaders assumed the next war would be like.

They may even be counter productive. Fortifications require a lot of men to man effectively, essentially tying them down and rendering them unable to respond to changes in battlefield conditions.

 

[sekelsenmat]

Just because forts are op in hoi4 don't assume that in reality they were also. Terrain was much more relevant and the Maginot has some big hills while Belgium is flat... For realism forts should have their effect in flat terrain (including forested/jungle) decreased to 5% per level and to 10% for hills/mountains. Not sure about coastal

 

[Sunforged General]

Yeah...no. Forts in HOI 4 are way more powerful than they ever would have been IRL. Static fortifications, even extensive ones, will do nothing to stop advancing armour. Forts in France/Belgium were designed to be effective against WW1 style battles that many Western leaders assumed the next war would be like.

They may even be counter productive. Fortifications require a lot of men to man effectively, essentially tying them down and rendering them unable to respond to changes in battlefield conditions.

I will point out that the Maginot line had so many anti tank rails/obstacles and armored anti tank gun turrets, using any armour vs the line head on would simply not work, there's no way to get past the rails, and if you have engineers try to remove them, they get mowed down by machine gun.

Also, the forts help the French and British stop the Germans, the forts don't do it alone.

 

[Sunforged General]

Just because forts are op in hoi4 don't assume that in reality they were also. Terrain was much more relevant and the Maginot has some big hills while Belgium is flat... For realism forts should have their effect in flat terrain (including forested/jungle) decreased to 5% per level and to 10% for hills/mountains. Not sure about coastal

That's fair, terrain is very important, however, a trench and anti tank obstacles are effective in any terrain.