Playing as a Count. Some Questions

[RonBurgundy]

Hey guys, just started playing this game. I've watched a bunch of tutorials and I have a good grasp of the game but I still have some questions. I tried searching the forums but couldn't find an answer.

First off, I just declared war on a rival count and won but now I get a pop-up that says title lost on secession. How can I prevent that title from leaving my dynasty when I die?

Secondly, now that I have conquered the land, I have quite a few vassals that hate me. How can I fix that?

Does anyone have any beginner tips to becoming a Duke? I love the idea of lifting myself up from humble beginnings to become a powerful leader but it's a bit daunting.

Thank you in advance for the advice!

 

[Mehmed2]

First off the reason you may lose titles is Gavelkind succession. The norm for most of the early medieval period and places such as Russia through Peter the Great. Anyway, your titles will be divided equally amongst eligible heirs, in this case probably a son or two. Unless the kingdom has High Crown Authority or Late Feudal Administration which can be viewed in the laws screen you will be unable to switch to Primogeniture which passes all titles to a single eldest child. You can experiment with easier to obtain succession laws, seniority which would pass all titles to the eldest eligible heir, elective where you can possibly pick your heir at the risk of losing the election or ultimogeniture which will pass all titles to the youngest heir kinda like primogeniture though it invites the odds of succession crises popping up with increased frequency. If none of these are an option or you find yourself unable you will have to stomach the title loss just like rulers did historically. Bright side is that if titles of yours split among equal levels you will get claims to get them back. However, if you are a duke and lose titles and they become your vassals you will not have claims and will have to resort either to roundabout methods or tyranny to require them.

You can increase vassal opinion throughs several means, putting them on the council, fulfilling their ambitions, using the increased opinion councilor job, honorary titles, ruling long and getting the long reign modifier, better traits, crushing rebellions, increasing councillor power, giving them land, marrying your family to theirs etc..

As for becoming a duke, the simplest way is to fabricate claims in your de jure duchy and then save up the money required to form the title. Quick money boosts can be obtained from the Jews if you have Sons of Abraham. No need to get all the counties in the duchy to form it, just a simple majority and then you will have the useful de jure casus belli to unify the duchy under your control.

 

[RonBurgundy]

Thank you, Mehmed2!

 

[Harassercat]

When you're starting small, don't be afraid to be a tyrant. If you gain a new vassal by conquest, and that vassal holds land in your main duchy, then don't hesitate to revoke his title and take it for yourself. If you can't revoke, then change the law so that you can. This is more relevant for tribal starts though, where a lot of your conquests will be subjugation instead of a claim war. Either way, you have to forge your core realm very forcefully, do not let petty vassals stand in your way and think long term. It's only when you're growing out from that core that you may need to be a bit more diplomatic (though not too much, hehe).

Do you have an heir already? If you still don't have a dynastic heir (e.g. son or brother) that would be why you get the pop-up.

 

[Jayavarman]

Hover your cursor over the character's relationship score to find out the reasons for their loving/hating you.

 

[RonBurgundy]

Thanks for the responses! An additional question; are counts and dukes fun to play as? Many of the LP's I see are of emperors and I love the idea of starting out as a nobody count to being emperor of a thriving nation but even Arumba doesn't seem to like that

 

[Mehmed2]

Honestly it depends on your type of play. If you heavily role play your character which sometimes make sub-optimum choices it can be loads of fun. Going out of your way to destroy someone over a petty grievance rather than just painting the map. Alas it is not everyone's cup of tea. I tend to play it like this, i only rise in the ranks either by serendipity like a strategic inheritance or deliberately with ambitious or ruthless characters. Loyalists defend their liege etc..

 

[RonBurgundy]

Honestly it depends on your type of play. If you heavily role play your character which sometimes make sub-optimum choices it can be loads of fun. Going out of your way to destroy someone over a petty grievance rather than just painting the map. Alas it is not everyone's cup of tea. I tend to play it like this, i only rise in the ranks either by serendipity like a strategic inheritance or deliberately with ambitious or ruthless characters. Loyalists defend their liege etc..

So you're saying that there's really no guarantee that you'll make it to King? I was playing like becoming a duke and eventually King was inevitable and I just had to figure out how to get there but I guess that makes the game even more interesting and rewarding.

Thank you again for the response.

 

[Rubidium]

So you're saying that there's really no guarantee that you'll make it to King? I was playing like becoming a duke and eventually King was inevitable and I just had to figure out how to get there but I guess that makes the game even more interesting and rewarding.

Thank you again for the response.

It really depends on the count. An independent count in e.g. Ireland can make king fairly easily (albeit with a lot of time spent fabricating claims). Someone like the Count of Boulogne (who is under a strong duke, who is under a strong king, and has to worry about de jure claims from the Emperor just to make things more fun) is going to have a more difficult time.

Honestly, I like to suggest starting out as a duke (or a small king, like Leon or Castile); having a layer of actual vassals (the barons/mayors/bishops you get as a count basically don't do anything, but counts can and will act against you if you tick them off) makes the game much richer.

Even if you do start as a count, you'll need to aim to make duke ASAP, as otherwise the demesne limit (the number of counties you can hold personally) will mess you up badly.

 

[Mehmed2]

The only reason you would ever NEED to aim to become a King or Emperor and thus usually independent is the fact that if you exported your game to EUIV you would not be able to continue your game as is unless you were a powerful vassal in a full feudal realm which would translate as a vassal in EUIV. This rarely happens.

 

[Harassercat]

You can work your way up from almost any position. It's all a matter of time and patience. I've played at least one game where I started as a single-county count within the Duchy of Balaton (867), worked my way to duke there, then swore fealty to Bulgaria and started to work my way to King of Pannonia. Didn't play that game much further than that but the king title was only a matter of time when I stopped playing it.

I like starting small personally. However I usually look for a count or duke who has 2-4 counties already. Playing with only one county is a little too boring; I know I can work my way out of that position but I'd rather just skip that part and start a little bigger.

If you start as a tribal chieftain then religion is an extra consideration -- starting very small as a Suomenusko chieftain is particularly bad because everyone has a large garrison but a small levy. So it can be very tricky to conquer your neighbours simply because of not having enough to siege the tribes or temples. With Norse pagans it's less of a problem.

 

[mrinku]

One of the major perks in playing a vassal ruler is that you can mostly ignore your ruler's wars if you wish (your troops are a separate levy to the ones they draw from your lands). As top dog, you have no choice when someone attacks you.

There's also a whole bunch of events that revolve around being a councillor, which is usually what you'll aim for as a vassal.

One trick when picking out a starting Count are those who are the eldest son of a Duke and stand to inherit.

As has been mentioned, Ireland is an excellent spot to learn - isolated and fractured. I like Brittany as well - it's a fat Duchy, one ducal title away from going to Kingdom, with an interesting position. Count -> Duke -> King is easy to do in Ghana, too.

Worth mentioning too, that you're really playing the whole dynasty. Some of the succession types make this much more apparent than simple gavelkind or primogeniture. It sometimes pays not to get too attached to one family and it is usually a good idea to pay attention to potential indirect heirs, in case of a sudden outbreak of mortality. With Tanistry and Elective you will often find yourself jumping between lines of descent - I find it better to work the system and surf it than to struggle to maintain a parent-child succession at all costs.

 

[Hiigara1356]

Here's a piece of general advice for a new player. Something you may want to attempt as a learning experiment: try running a game or two without using the Fabricate Claim chancellor mission at all. Just pretend it doesn't exist, and expand using other methods. You'll learn a lot about the marriage system, how strong and weak claims can be moved around, how to play the political game to bring those claims to you, etc.

By "limiting" yourself in this way you'll grow your understanding of more "advanced" mechanics. You'll find yourself suddenly very interested in family trees - your own ruler's, your courtiers', and particularly those of neighboring rulers. When you re-introduce claim fabrication back into your tool kit you'll find you don't need it as often as you thought you did when you were first starting out.

EDIT: To add to this. If you try this out, you'll probably end up relying on an important mechanic: if you press somebody else's claim on a territory, that person will then become your vassal (hurray!) if the claimnant is (1) lower rank than you (ex: he is a count and you are a duke) and (2.) EITHER your de jure vassal OR of your dysnasty. That last dynastic bit is a big deal.

 

[sigeena]

Hiigara1356's advice is gold. It's actually more economical and expedient, especially if you're at Emperor level, and need to eat Kingdom claims.

 

[RonBurgundy]

Really awesome advice, guys. Thank you and Hiigara1356, I will play without the fabricate claim mission since I've been wanting to learn more about politics and marriage.

So the object of this game isn't world domination? You can have a long, rewarding campaign without becoming King and painting the map? This is seriously a new concept to me, guys lol

I've been loving the game, though. This is a very different grand strategy game and I'm very appreciative of everyone's advice. I'll be using all of it.

 

[Philadelphus]

Thanks for the responses! An additional question; are counts and dukes fun to play as? Many of the LP's I see are of emperors and I love the idea of starting out as a nobody count to being emperor of a thriving nation but even Arumba doesn't seem to like that

I had a lot of fun in my first "real" game by starting out as a single-county count in Ireland, becoming a duke, then getting lucky and winning the kingdom of Jerusalem in the second crusade, which I proceeded to make my primary title (giving away Ireland to my younger son) and hold for the next few hundred years against multiple jihads, slowly expanding over many generations until I managed to hold the kingdoms of Jerusalem, Syria, and Egypt with a brilliant young king, poised for further expansion…

…then he randomly died in battle at like age 28, and the three kingdoms went to his three sons because I hadn't held the titles of Syria and Egypt long enough to switch them from gavelkind. I ended up swearing fealty to the Byzantine emperor a few generations later and converting to Orthodox while entwining my dynasty with that of Ethiopia. That was a really fun game.

So, uh, rambling aside, you can definitely have a rewarding game without taking over half the known world. Sure, I expanded a bit over time (and that was fun too), but I was still pretty small compared to Byzantium and the HRE, and a lot of the fun was fighting off the separate Sunni and Shia jihads trying to conquer my kingdom.

 

[Harassercat]

Hiigara's advice to try doing without the claim fabrication crutch is very good. Actually half the time I use fabrication personally, it isn't for expanding outwards but rather to get a claim on one of my vassal counties which I want to hold personally. With the claim you can revoke without the opinion hit from all your other vassals. I wouldn't do that in a small realm though, because if I only have a few small vassals I don't care what they think, I'll gladly screw them all over any time.

The most elegant way to expand is not through pressing claims but through straight-up inheritance. It can be very hard to arrange and usually requires a bit of poisoned wine and smothering little children with pillows. I suppose you can justify it morally by the fact that then many more soldiers' lives are saved and no dreadful sieges need to take place. Here's my usual method for arranging expansion by inheritance:

1. Study the titles you're interested in. Look at the order of inheritance and see who the people listed are. Check how viable it would be to assassinate some of the adults (don't try to kill children while their adults are around). Don't do this for a single county, do this for something worth the effort like a duchy, kingdom or large collection of counties.

2. Arrange a matrilineal marriage with someone who stands to inherit down the line. If all you can get is a 4 year old boy then that could work but it's going to be a while till you get those titles. The plan isn't to have this potential heir be your vassal, it's for *his child who will be of your dynasty* to inherit the titles as your vassal. In theory this person could even be your own heir. If you can't get a matrilineal betrothal or marriage, try to invite the heir to your own court and then marry him matrilineally.

3. Once this potential heir has married and bred with a woman of your dynasty and you see that their child is on the inheritance list, it's time to arrange for untimely deaths. If your plot potential is low, an advanced method of assassination could be to introduce useful people to the target's court. Ideally, a super high intrigue woman who is your lover and has a very high opinion of you. Get her married to someone in the court - if you're lucky you can even marry her to the assassination target. Best time to kill people is immediately after succession, when people have the lowest opinion of the new ruler.

I think there may be some single-county starts out there where it's nearly impossible to expand through claims alone because of not having enough manpower to attack and siege. The solution then would ideally be alliances but arranging to win the inheritance jackpot would also be a great way to advance out of that position.