Playing an Uncivilized Nation

[Xbwalker]

I remember it was a nightmare to play anything but the big powers for me in Victoria. It was harder yet to get civilized without cheating.

How will this game be handling smaller nations like Sokoto or Afghanistan etc..?

I only ask because I always like to play new grand strategy games (HoI, HoI3, Vic) as a smaller nation so I can't make any huge mistakes.

 

[Lord_Andrew]

Well it will be very difficult civilizing as a small uncivi nation, because you need a high military scory to civilize.

But there is alot of small nations, try starting playing as a south american country or the two south african ones, they start as civilized but are still small.

 

[Shauf]

I certainly is nog à nightmare but i won't be easy either. At THE start you Will most likely make à loss. The first thing to do would be reaearching freedom of trade. This Will make make your economy Michel stronger. And from there on THE world is open .

Some tips for nations to try.

Transvaal - civilized but in africa and small have good resources so economy is easier.
Panjab - big population but look out for THE UK.
Hawaï - isolated bood of you want to be left alone.

Sorry for THE bad typing it's from my phone.

 

[unmerged(96011)]

Well it will be very difficult civilizing as a small uncivi nation, because you need a high military scory to civilize.

So the military score requirement does not scale to population? That's pretty ridiculous. Especially since its such an arbitrary metric in the first place.

 

[Donnie D]

So the military score requirement does not scale to population? That's pretty ridiculous. Especially since its such an arbitrary metric in the first place.

Not necessarily. From the view of those deciding it, you could say a conglomerate of opinions of the powers that-be, it´s rather an achievement to field quite an army, independent of whichever size your population is. The arbitrary size requirement just goes to show that for a power to recognize the process of civilizing requires quite a lot of military strength, thus the high number.

 

[quetzilla]

So the military score requirement does not scale to population? That's pretty ridiculous. Especially since its such an arbitrary metric in the first place.

The point is that in order to be taken seriously, your nation has to establish a military presence. Which means that if you're playing a small nation, you need to conquer some people to show you mean business. Scaling to pop size doesn't make any sense. No one cares if Bali gets Military Score of 10 lol!

 

[Celdur]

Well, the smaller independent nations have 1 or 2 armies in Vic1, to know for sure i'll have to wait 30 more min (200kb for me) but it should at least make sense the requierements to being civilized don't surpass the capabilities of the existing independent nations.

Personally i think it has more to do with technologies, specially goberment ones.

 

[walrus]

I think the high military score is due to civilizing being that you have to appear civilized in the eyes of the rest of the world. I'm sure the Koreans, the Punjabis and the Zulu didn't go around considering themselves uncivilized

Although it is annoying, and I hope it's easily modifiable and/or you can make country specific civilizing requirements.

 

[Xbwalker]

So it is based more on military points? Back in Victoria Revolutions, Industrial Points were a HUGE factor and I had to conquer like Alexander just to get the world's attention. We will see how it goes.

Oh and Shauf, I agree. Those are great nations and more often than not, I would play as Oranje (their country color should be orange....I'm just sayin) and take South Africa for myself. Maybe Ill do that.

Curse you Gamersgate people. If my damn isp wasn't so screwed up, I would use them more instead of D2D but for some reason any Scandinavian based web server is cut off from me. It is apparently only in my town too. Racist ISP.

 

[unmerged(203712)]

The point is that in order to be taken seriously, your nation has to establish a military presence. Which means that if you're playing a small nation, you need to conquer some people to show you mean business. Scaling to pop size doesn't make any sense. No one cares if Bali gets Military Score of 10 lol!

Even when such a requirements of military score exceeds most civilized countries in the world? That's a bad excuse.

I'll say, having a certain mil score for civilizing is reasonable. But even if we can't have a proportional mil requirement, at least it should be done into several different scores for countries of different size, like big country needs 80 mil, medium ones needs 50 mil, and small ones needs 20 mil. Civilizing is really not all about conquering, a modern and well organized army says everything.

 

[Xbwalker]

Would you consider modern day Fiji a civilized nation by western standards? Their military is HUGE per capita but they certainly aren't up to date with us in any other way.

 

[unmerged(56909)]

I would play as Oranje (their country color should be orange....I'm just sayin)

It's not!? How the bloody h*ll did this grievous insult to all that is right and good in the world slip past me? Sir, I assure you that this flaw shall be rectified first thing monday morning!

@ OP: Smaller nations like Sokoto will be handled like so: At some point during the game you will be approached by a "greater power". This "greater power" will -- usual cordialities having been exchanged -- hand you or a representative of yours a piece of paper headlined; "Declaration of War". Some fighting will ensue, after which swift annexation and reincorporation as a loyal British subject will be likely prospects for your immediate future.

(No, srsly, you'll need some techs, prestige and military score to civilize. It should be fairly hard to accomplish playing as either AFG or SOK. )

 

[Xbwalker]

It's not!? How the bloody h*ll did this grievous insult to all that is right and good in the world slip past me? Sir, I assure you that this flaw shall be rectified first thing monday morning!

@ OP: Smaller nations like Sokoto will be handled like so: At some point during the game you will be approached by a "greater power". This "greater power" will -- usual cordialities having been exchanged -- hand you or a representative of yours a piece of paper headlined; "Declaration of War". Some fighting will ensue, after which swift annexation and reincorporation as a loyal British subject will be likely prospects for your immediate future.

(No, srsly, you'll need some techs, prestige and military score to civilize. It should be fairly hard to accomplish playing as either AFG or SOK. )

Sir. I accept your challenge! (slaps you with a metal gauntlet). Also I'm glad to see that Oranje is getting its rightful place in the sun....the sun is orange too. Hmm.

 

[Xbwalker]

Ill have you know, I was able to civilize Sokoto and even conquer some of Africa. I own Ethiopia, Inland Algeria, and am building up to take out the French possessions in North Africa.

It took nearly 30 years to civilize but with full education, full administration, and lots of conquering, I was able to gather up the techs and prestige to get it done. I still have 70 or so years of gametime to try and become an African Empire too! WOOO! Vic2 = awesome.

 

[Benandorf]

I played a zulu game, took me 40 years to civilize because my Military score was a pain to get to 50, but it's definitely doable. I'm still working on it, in 1904, but am a great power.

Took me 4 restarts to beat Oranje in the day 1 wardec, though.

 

[unmerged(96011)]

I think the high military score is due to civilizing being that you have to appear civilized in the eyes of the rest of the world. I'm sure the Koreans, the Punjabis and the Zulu didn't go around considering themselves uncivilized

Gawrsh, if only there was some type of metric by which your country appeared impressive to the rest of the world. We could call such a score "Prestige" perhaps. Maybe make that a requirement to civilize.

Ah well, maybe in an expansion or sequel.

 

[unmerged(96011)]

Would you consider modern day Fiji a civilized nation by western standards? Their military is HUGE per capita but they certainly aren't up to date with us in any other way.

Lacking a standing army, it stands to reason that Costa Rica is an uncivilized nation of savages to this day, waiting to be annexed by random white dudes with machine guns.

 

[Xbwalker]

Lacking a standing army, it stands to reason that Costa Rica is an uncivilized nation of savages to this day, waiting to be annexed by random white dudes with machine guns.

Hmm. I'm white. I just need to find me a machine gun and soon my real life Vic2/HoI3 shall begin! Who's with me?