Players and the community want to make their own unit models/textures/"sprites"

[kiaghi7]

We are all perfectly aware that it can and has already been done dozens of times over at this point, and I know Paradox isn't one to shy away from squeezing out a few more pennies from their customers, but how about at least letting the community make their own unit textures/skins, models, and animations.

As such, this is an open request for a proper Software Development Kit (SDK) to allow the community to modify the last remaining component of the game currently closed off from us.

Bare in mind, I've bought all the sprite packs and enjoy them...

But frankly the situation is tiresome that we have to "take what we're given", and accept exactly what's been decided to be given to us, and even in the recent "vote for the new unit" thread, the mid-60's Leopard was chosen above the Panzerjager which was commonly used in WW2, particularly early on...

I'm not knocking the work of Paradox or the "sprite development group" that makes the sprite (well, they are textures really) packs, but the community wants to be able to decide for itself what it wants individually, and if it doesn't exist then they should be able to make it themselves without having to kow tow and beg for someone to make it so. If someone wants to make a M1A2 model, so be it, I'd be inclined to make all of the different units more "uniquely identifiable" and interesting looking above all else.

More than anything though, I hear quite unanimous calls for more nations...

All of that being said, it's not a cry for "well do it faster", because faster isn't the solution at all. The real solution is to let the public produce their own works and share them as they like.

If anyone else would like the opportunity to make their own models, textures, and so forth, please join in and lend your voice.



P.S. We all know perfectly well there is a part of the community that prefers to use nothing but counters, and I completely understand and have even played that way and like it for the strategic aspects and benefits it brings. However, please if you are "anti-unit-sprites" or whatever you'd like to call it, refrain from posting because nobody is asking to do anything negative to unit counters in any way. I wholeheartedly support your play style and in now way wish to impede it, however please don't denigrate the way others choose to play either solely because you play another way.

Thank you in advance

 

[kiaghi7]

Surely with nearly 70 views in a matter of hours, SOMEBODY has to at least agree that they would like to see more people able to make more models, textures, and units in general for the game for the benefit of all?

 

[unmerged(157789)]

I agree with what you said, though I normally just use counters because it makes it look more 'strategically realistic' and because, I believe at least, it helps the game run faster.

That said, the ability to make new sprites would be pretty cool. But overall, I would agree with the desire to be able to make new countries or to have more countries to liberate in the game. ie: A United Central America, a Welsh and Scottish state alongside an English one that could replace the United Kingdom if conquered by the Germans (ie-Kaiserreich). But I doubt they have the time to work on such a mod for it.

Hopefully, they would be able to at least put out an editor like they had for HOI 2. Would allow me to actually mod the game

 

[kiaghi7]

I agree with what you said, though I normally just use counters because it makes it look more 'strategically realistic' and because, I believe at least, it helps the game run faster.

That said, the ability to make new sprites would be pretty cool. But overall, I would agree with the desire to be able to make new countries or to have more countries to liberate in the game. ie: A United Central America, a Welsh and Scottish state alongside an English one that could replace the United Kingdom if conquered by the Germans (ie-Kaiserreich). But I doubt they have the time to work on such a mod for it.

Hopefully, they would be able to at least put out an editor like they had for HOI 2. Would allow me to actually mod the game

Exactly!

I'm not asking for Paradox, or the 2nd party responsible for the "sprite packs" to do more and we want it yesterday, I want the ability to do for myself.

I prefer to not ask of others if some avenue of self reliance is available, and HOI3 is in dire need of just that, a proper SDK made public so that we can not only invigorate the community with the ability to vastly increase the options for models/textures/units, but also directly enhance the community's contributions to the game and making it ever better.

We all know the tools/SDK exist(s) in some form or another, otherwise we wouldn't have the "sprite packs". I wholeheartedly applaud them and have gladly bought every one of them, but just like after conquering one country, I want more! Much more, orders of magnitude more!

If it's a question of "well can you make the textures", I own every Photoshop since PS6 and -=EVERY=- CS master suite.

If it's a question of "well can you make the models", between 3ds Max, Maya, and others, I either have it or can get it with ease.

The only real barrier between the community and completely unfettered ability to create unit models/textures as they see fit, is merely a proper interface and details of the "ABC's".

Now I know from Paradox's perspective, it would likely be a potential tech-support nightmare, but it could just as easily be released as Relic Studios did with Company of Heroes... Albeit in an extremely limited fashion (but that's another story), but at all times has been entirely officially UNsupported by Relic and up to the community to "figure out". Long story short however, the community has found its own way, and made it happen, but none the less the basic ground work needs to be made accessible to the community in the first place.

All in favor of having the individual freedom to create whatever you like within your capacity to do so say "aye". ("Arrrr" is also acceptable should you be a pirate... Ninjas would be expected to remain silent.)

 

[unmerged(157789)]

Exactly!

I'm not asking for Paradox, or the 2nd party responsible for the "sprite packs" to do more and we want it yesterday, I want the ability to do for myself.

I prefer to not ask of others if some avenue of self reliance is available, and HOI3 is in dire need of just that, a proper SDK made public so that we can not only invigorate the community with the ability to vastly increase the options for models/textures/units, but also directly enhance the community's contributions to the game and making it ever better.

We all know the tools/SDK exist(s) in some form or another, otherwise we wouldn't have the "sprite packs". I wholeheartedly applaud them and have gladly bought every one of them, but just like after conquering one country, I want more! Much more, orders of magnitude more!

If it's a question of "well can you make the textures", I own every Photoshop since PS6 and -=EVERY=- CS master suite.

If it's a question of "well can you make the models", between 3ds Max, Maya, and others, I either have it or can get it with ease.

The only real barrier between the community and completely unfettered ability to create unit models/textures as they see fit, is merely a proper interface and details of the "ABC's".

Now I know from Paradox's perspective, it would likely be a potential tech-support nightmare, but it could just as easily be released as Relic Studios did with Company of Heroes... Albeit in an extremely limited fashion (but that's another story), but at all times has been entirely officially UNsupported by Relic and up to the community to "figure out". Long story short however, the community has found its own way, and made it happen, but none the less the basic ground work needs to be made accessible to the community in the first place.

All in favor of having the individual freedom to create whatever you like within your capacity to do so say "aye". ("Arrrr" is also acceptable should you be a pirate... Ninjas would be expected to remain silent.)

Arrrr !!!

 

[overweightninja]

("Arrrr" is also acceptable should you be a pirate... Ninjas would be expected to remain silent.)

I would like to comment on this but unfortunately I think you've just hamstrung me somewhat

But overall, I would agree with the desire to be able to make new countries or to have more countries to liberate in the game. ie: A United Central America, a Welsh and Scottish state alongside an English one that could replace the United Kingdom if conquered by the Germans (ie-Kaiserreich). But I doubt they have the time to work on such a mod for it.

We have the New Nations mod

 

[CaptRobau]

Aye.

 

[VetMax]

I want ot have soviet/russian counters instead of nato when playing SU

 

[overweightninja]

I want ot have soviet/russian counters instead of nato when playing SU

You already have the means to do this also.

 

[xtfoster]

From what I understand the sprites are/were developed using a 3rd party program (that costs mega bucks). Because of this, Paradox cannot release the software used to create them, because they don't own the rights to do that. It isn't like HOI2 where the sprites were simply 2d bitmaps.

 

[kiaghi7]

From what I understand the sprites are/were developed using a 3rd party program (that costs mega bucks). Because of this, Paradox cannot release the software used to create them, because they don't own the rights to do that. It isn't like HOI2 where the sprites were simply 2d bitmaps.

Well, if that is the case, the 2nd party that has made the sprite packs either knows the methodology or has been provided the tools with which to accomplish the task, so in either event either the information or the interface can indeed be redistributed as necessary.

If it requires 3rd party programs for modeling/textures, then that is not a problem, and anyone planning to make their own models/textures would already have those prerequisite applications. If it's merely a matter of information on how to create, what specifications, and how to convert, then there is simply no excuse why such information shouldn't be shared openly for the benefit of the community.

At the end of the day, somebody somewhere has what it takes to make it a reality without having to rely upon what is effectively spoon fed to the community. Either Paradox's 1st party tools and/or information, or the sprite pack creator's 2nd party tools and/or information which if you think about it unquestionably had to be relayed via Paradox because how would they have known where to begin without the groundwork being provided?

 

[unmerged(149861)]

Aye. SDK would be a great thing for me.

 

[Forgiven]

Very short research to this sprite matter tells me that
1.
The sprites are in the directory /gfx/models/
2.
the file extension being .tga lot of graphics programs should be able to do something with them ( http://tga.extensionfile.net/ ) since I have none of those, I can't test.
3.
The files defining which image is shown and when, for majors at least, is in /units/models/ and opening it with simple text editor should give enough of a clue how to add new ones.

 

[shvR]

Very short research to this sprite matter tells me that
1.
The sprites are in the directory /gfx/models/
2.
the file extension being .tga lot of graphics programs should be able to do something with them ( http://tga.extensionfile.net/ ) since I have none of those, I can't test.
3.
The files defining which image is shown and when, for majors at least, is in /units/models/ and opening it with simple text editor should give enough of a clue how to add new ones.

.tga are not animations, more likely to be the .xsm or .xac files in the gfx/anims (hint hint) folder

 

[Lothos]

Those features have been around since HoI 1 days where people dould do exactly that. Create their own models and sprites.

 

[Forgiven]

.tga are not animations, more likely to be the .xsm or .xac files in the gfx/anims (hint hint) folder

Duh, had to be too short a research :rofl:

 

[Lauri]

Aye

Not to mention the ones that would like to make tanks, planes, ships and troops from WWI, Cold War and Modern Day mods

 

[kiaghi7]

Aye

Not to mention the ones that would like to make tanks, planes, ships and troops from WWI, Cold War and Modern Day mods

Precisely my point!

I want to see separate models for all the brigades made individual for every nation (well, at least many/most of them anyway). I would like to see regional camouflage schemes (Afrika korps, Ostfront, or even the more sedate summer/fall schemes for greater Europe).

Better still, I'd like the possibility of units changing over time, starting with Panzer II's or some such, changing in appearance as technology advances, perhaps winding up at Leopard tanks or some such if the individual player wanted to go that far... I think I'd probably stop with E-50 and E-100 tanks.

Things like the planes and ships too have unfathomable potential for additions with new models/textures...

At the end of the day, we should make it be known quite plainly that we want to make models and textures for ourselves too. Sometimes the prepackaged product, no matter how much I like it, simply isn't as much as I would like to put into the game. I'm not going to complain that it's not enough for me, I simply want the ability for all of us to be able to add to the game more and create what we would like to see.

 

[Riffraffselbow]

It should be trivial to retexture the models; There's a bunch fo DDS files in gfx/anims. These are the textures. The ones that are the most "obvious" and easy to edit by hand are the Diffuse files. Any competent image editing program should be able to edit DDS files, perhaps with a plugin. In fact, I'm going to try to put the Paradox logo on a battleship's deck, as a proof of concept. I'll post screenshots if it works.

 

[Riffraffselbow]

Okay, I did it.

If I was a decent artist, I'd have done something interesting. I'm not.

Mucking about in texture maps is not an "easy" thing to do, as there's little reference as to what goes where. However, it can be done, and the results can be very good. I'm certain that, with the depth and breadth of talent the Paradox mod community has, there are plenty of great artists out there, who could work wonder with even this.

For a basic tutorial on what maps are and how they work, this is good:
http://richfallatjr.com/SSS_tutorial/sss_tutorial.htm

It does a good job demonstrating the fact that maps are laid over each other in sequence, to texture the 3d figure as a whole. Maps can only be overlaid on a single, uninterrupted, mesh; Think of it like unfolding the faces of a cube.

If you want to see what the diffuse map looks like:

As you can see, I added some text for the test.

edit: I've started a request for information thread on the tech support forums, here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=475807

As you can see, I've figured out a lot more about the system, and there's only one last bit standing in the way of me being able to do my own custom texture packs. It's unlikely we'll be able to make entirely new models, unless someone figures out the right compile settings to make the .xacs; they're compiled models, can't edit them directly.