Player retention comparted to CK3 first 2 weeks after release

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Bezborg

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dunno whether a v2 clone would have been "better", but if I want a v2 clone I'll just download v2 - I have it and I assume its way cheap on steam!
Let’s not be literal, nobody wants an exact copy (well, actually, I do…. But I’m not a normal pdx fan)… but at least put what was already there and build on it/add features… not change the game concept and focus fundamentally… or go for it, but don’t call it “Victoria 3” :/ eh, whatever, it is what it is. A disappointment.
 
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When people say "victoria 2 clone" no one is saying an exact replica, bugs and warts and all. What they mean is rather than a complete revolution of the game, like Victoria 3 is, instead it would be an evolution of Victoria 2. Improving on what came before instead of unceremoniously throwing it all in the bin and starting from scratch.
 
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dunno whether a v2 clone would have been "better", but if I want a v2 clone I'll just download v2 - I have it and I assume its way cheap on steam!

I don’t think anyone is actually asking for a Vicky 2 clone. The way I phrase what I want is Vicky 2.5.
 
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What wild success? 500k? Is that what constitutes wild success?
You think this because it is a milestone that the Vicky twitter account celebrated. In reality, it's the lowest since EU4, with Imperator as the only exception.
First month stats for paradox sales are hard to find, but the few that are there show similar performance for other games. Given that Vic3 is more “niche” it slightly overperformed, I think. If you have better sources with stats feel free to correct me.

I don’t think anyone is actually asking for a Vicky 2 clone. The way I phrase what I want is Vicky 2.5.
*Sigh* Just like EU3 vs EU4. Look, I’m not saying this game doesn’t have flaws, but going “just make an update of *older game*”, while always appealing in the early days of release, tends to lose steam as more patches come out. Believe it or not, there are still EU3 partisans around. Vic2 is similar, a relic from an older age whose mechanics don’t really translate well.
 
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...while the Paradox philosophy tends more and more to fill us with DLCs for music...
This is a little off-topic, but music being tied to DLC specifically really grinds my gears. Paradox games ship with nowhere near enough music for one 20-80 hour campaign, let alone multiple. I guess it might be alright if there were dedicated music-DLCs as at least then I would feel like I was supporting the composers specifically, but adding one or two songs to a DLC but not the accompanying free update is just bloody annoying.
 
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On topic, there's no reason to think games about different topics will have the same paths for "player retention" or even player base. In gaming, the 19th century and First World War are very hard sells! The average person is open to romantic stories about knights, King Arthur, Cao Cao; not so much gaslight and class struggle.

(Admittedly, this time Paradox went all-in on the Reddit/Discord crowd who would like a game about class struggle and slaughtering the bourgeoisie. Still, there aren't many of them.)
 
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(Admittedly, this time Paradox went all-in on the Reddit/Discord crowd who would like a game about class struggle and slaughtering the bourgeoisie. Still, there aren't many of them.)
I originally thought so too, based on the DDs and artwork, but really there isn't much of a struggle at all, the government just passes reforms. It's more of a game about becoming an innocent multicultural social-democracy than about becoming a revolutionary. It's borderline false advertising.
 
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*Sigh* Just like EU3 vs EU4. Look, I’m not saying this game doesn’t have flaws, but going “just make an update of *older game*”, while always appealing in the early days of release, tends to lose steam as more patches come out. Believe it or not, there are still EU3 partisans around. Vic2 is similar, a relic from an older age whose mechanics don’t really translate well.

Its not just that the mechanics are different or dated. Its that the core gameplay is fundamentally different. EU3/4 are not nearly as different as Vicky2/3. And I notice you don't compare how similar CK2/3 are. Vicky 3 is a tycoon game that happens to take place on a world map, and pops are how you keep your production chain going. Vicky 2 is a grand strategy game that is about managing your relationship with your pops, and your economy is one of the main ways in which you interact with your pops.
 
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Its not just that the mechanics are different or dated. Its that the core gameplay is fundamentally different. EU3/4 are not nearly as different as Vicky2/3. And I notice you don't compare how similar CK2/3 are. Vicky 3 is a tycoon game that happens to take place on a world map, and pops are how you keep your production chain going. Vicky 2 is a grand strategy game that is about managing your relationship with your pops, and your economy is one of the main ways in which you interact with your pops.
I think there is truth to this, especially playing with the base game AI. But here’s the thing: to the degree it’s true, it seems completely obvious that it’s true not by design but because features aren’t working as intended or need more development. It’s not like the devs sat down and said “politics and diplomacy are going to be unimportant in this game; they won’t be part of the core gameplay.” They clearly are meant to be, and the next 2 years of development will see a concerted effort to make it so. I don’t think any of this is particularly subjective. Of course people can have different opinions on whether the design choices were good and the issues can be fixed. But it just seems objectively wrong to say the game was designed as a tycoon.
 
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I think there is truth to this, especially playing with the base game AI. But here’s the thing: to the degree it’s true, it seems completely obvious that it’s true not by design but because features aren’t working as intended or need more development. It’s not like the devs sat down and said “politics and diplomacy are going to be unimportant in this game; they won’t be part of the core gameplay.” They clearly are meant to be, and the next 2 years of development will see a concerted effort to make it so. I don’t think any of this is particularly subjective. Of course people can have different opinions on whether the design choices were good and the issues can be fixed. But it just seems objectively wrong to say the game was designed as a tycoon.
I disagree. The hands-on economy, as opposed to V2's semi-autonomous system, was definitely intentional, and has had the largest change to game-feel in my books. You could also argue that other major systems changes, like the fronts-war system and an economic-IG rather than poltical-party focused political system are fundamental changes to game philosophy, though I probably on balance wouldn't despite liking the ideas behind some of those changes (war) and disliking others (politics).
 
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I originally thought so too, based on the DDs and artwork, but really there isn't much of a struggle at all, the government just passes reforms. It's more of a game about becoming an innocent multicultural social-democracy than about becoming a revolutionary. It's borderline false advertising.
Bolster trade unions > research socialism > grant asylum to Marx > pass council republic > choose your flavour of red

It's that easy, lads. Who needs a revolution, anyway? ... sigh
 
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I think there is truth to this, especially playing with the base game AI. But here’s the thing: to the degree it’s true, it seems completely obvious that it’s true not by design but because features aren’t working as intended or need more development. It’s not like the devs sat down and said “politics and diplomacy are going to be unimportant in this game; they won’t be part of the core gameplay.” They clearly are meant to be, and the next 2 years of development will see a concerted effort to make it so. I don’t think any of this is particularly subjective. Of course people can have different opinions on whether the design choices were good and the issues can be fixed. But it just seems objectively wrong to say the game was designed as a tycoon.
It's not completely obvious, and it is subjective what the devs wanted, unless you are speaking as a Paradox dev. Thus it's not objectively wrong (adverbs don't make an argument!). Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, not more. For example, people who think the game downplays diplomacy will point to the vision statement, which says events outside your country are not the main reason why people should play the game.
 
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I think there is truth to this, especially playing with the base game AI. But here’s the thing: to the degree it’s true, it seems completely obvious that it’s true not by design but because features aren’t working as intended or need more development. It’s not like the devs sat down and said “politics and diplomacy are going to be unimportant in this game; they won’t be part of the core gameplay.” They clearly are meant to be, and the next 2 years of development will see a concerted effort to make it so. I don’t think any of this is particularly subjective. Of course people can have different opinions on whether the design choices were good and the issues can be fixed. But it just seems objectively wrong to say the game was designed as a tycoon.

Its really not. The game’s focus is clearly top-down industrialization. You can compare it to a Tycoon game, or to Factorio, or Tropico, or to any other number of games. Its still the same basic top-down gameplay.

Everything else is secondary to that, and it isn’t because of any failures in the mechanics. Its because that is the game the developers wanted. If they fixed diplomacy, internal politics, and war, those mechanics would still be secondary to manually building your national economy.
 
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EarlKonrad

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Bolster trade unions > research socialism > grant asylum to Marx > pass council republic > choose your flavour of red

It's that easy, lads. Who needs a revolution, anyway? ... sigh

Sounds like something that HoI IV would do.
 
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MatthewP

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I disagree. The hands-on economy, as opposed to V2's semi-autonomous system, was definitely intentional, and has had the largest change to game-feel in my books. You could also argue that other major systems changes, like the fronts-war system and an economic-IG rather than poltical-party focused political system are fundamental changes to game philosophy, though I probably on balance wouldn't despite liking the ideas behind some of those changes (war) and disliking others (politics).
The economy is more fun to engage with, but it’s about as top down as vic2 in the early game with state capitalism. Late game it is currently more, but if the devs add some more automation then it’ll be possible to have it run itself and free the player to do other thing in the late game, just like laissez faire in vic2. I don’t think adding that automation would be a change to the game philosophy. But I guess you can look at it both ways.
It’s really not. The game’s focus is clearly top-down industrialization. You can compare it to a Tycoon game, or to Factorio, or Tropico, or to any other number of games. It’s still the same basic top-down gameplay.

Everything else is secondary to that, and it isn’t because of any failures in the mechanics. Its because that is the game the developers wanted. If they fixed diplomacy, internal politics, and war, those mechanics would still be secondary to manually building your national economy.
I find that politics is already as big a focus as the economy for the first 20-40 years. If anything more so. It only fails because you reach a “done” state. But that can be improved.

For diplomacy, you may have more of a point. But I don’t think that much. It’s clear diplomacy is supposed to be a central feature, even if it’s not the central features. Things are just missing, like a challenging AI, good logic for joining DPs and foreign investment. I expect in the long run it’ll play in broad strokes a lot like how vic2 did: the economy is a huge focus in the early game, with diplomacy being there (especially in terms of colonization) but generally not central. Then in the late game the economy will go on autopilot, and the focus will shift towards diplomacy. Politics will be an important part throughout.

But hey, maybe I’m wrong and the devs wanted incomplete, buggy and flawed systems everywhere to force people to stare at their construction queue all the time. I guess we’ll see over the next few months and years.
 
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DominusNovus

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But hey, maybe I’m wrong and the devs wanted incomplete, buggy and flawed systems everywhere to force people to stare at their construction queue all the time. I guess we’ll see over the next few months and years.

I’ve got no reason to think they *don’t* want that.
 
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durbal

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Y'all got anymore of them trend lines?
1674619835978.png
 
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unmerged(60177)

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Y'all got anymore of them trend lines?
So these aren't trendlines, but still. According to SteamDB this is the trends in the first three months of the latest PDX releases, pr. concurrent players on steam.
Victoria 3 released to 70.000 and fell to around 9.000, that's just under 13% player retention, but the lines looks to be going down.
EUIV released to around 15.000 and fell to around 5.000, that's 33% player retention, and it has risen since to slightly more than 20.000
CK3 released at 100.000 and fell to 17.000, faling a bit more to 14.000 by month 4-5, that obviously around 17% player retention, and it has stabilised around 18.500.
HOI4 released to 40.000 and fell to 10.000, that's 25% player retention, and it has risen now to around 44.000

So far Vic3 has had one of the largest releases, but has done the worst in terms of player retention.
 
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Inquerion

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@ironman3112 "Y'all got anymore of them trend lines?"

In two weeks since my last post, 24h peak player concurrent number dropped from 8k to 6k and lowest recorded "players right now" dropped from 6k to 4k, so V3 lost ~2k players in two weeks, which is bad. Game is losing a lot of active players.

It doesn't help that updates are very slow and more and more players are losing interest in the game after a playthrough or two since the game lacks flavour and has many unresolved issues. Imperator was similar in that regard, except that it had even more issues at launch and higher % player drop.

According to new data from VG Insights, V3 sold ~814k copies.
To compare it with other PDX titles:

Imperator 780k, CK3 2.6mln, EU4 3.6mln, Hoi4 4.8mln.

Screenshot_20230125-110752-334.png
 
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