Playable Fallen Empires in future expansions?

[Tiaexz]

I remember Rome: Total War's Barbarian Invasion expansion was quite fun whilst playing as the Western Empire. There was a certain savage joy in holding off the barbarians for as long as I could and falling back as slowly as possible.

Maybe that was just me.

I reunited the Roman Empire in that game and crushed the barbarian hordes so hard, they fled back over the steppes.

But I understand your point about survival games, but the issue with those, survival aspect is part of the reward, because you are going to fail, it is just 'when'. Also external threat is different from random rebels.

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

I reunited the Roman Empire in that game and crushed the barbarian hordes so hard, they fled back over the steppes.

But I understand your point about survival games, but the issue with those, survival aspect is part of the reward, because you are going to fail, it is just 'when'.

After a few tries I managed to get a conquest, but it was somehow never as fun as the first desperate time.

I agree with you. It's like Tetris: you don't get to win, but you get to brag about the time it took before you lost and the elegance of your defence. A mod for Stellaris in which one has to do this would be amazing fun.

 

[LDRevolution]

If you want to play Fallen Empires, iirc they have a 'playable = no' flag on them (This was said on some Stellaris video can't remember, the same that said you can tag switch) either remove the flag or change it to yes when the game comes out, don't complain when you find out that they are boring to play as though.

 

[devfrost44]

So basically, they have to treat playable fallen empire like China in other paradox game.

 

[EvilTom]

Whilst it would be interesting, it might be better to join as a fallen empire in a year like 100 years in the future from the normal start, but that would be more of a "scenario" rather than a free play. That would get rid of the boring bit and allow you

They could have some kind of weird war requirements or even an odd government type that only allows one planet.
that would make for some interesting play. Say an anti AI race that can go out and declare war on races that have robot pops, but can't take over the planet so they just have to tomb them.

 

[Botox]

Playable fallen empires sounds pretty boring to me, the mentioned arguments seem to cover the cons already.

But you could always mod the game or your save to play a fallen empire. Just play through, settle your turf and then delete all other settled planets besides the home planets of the other civs and their tech advancements and event chains. Voila, you have your fallen empire with endgame tech, enough resources and a totaly new galaxy.

 

[Galu]

I think it would take a enormous amount of creativity and time to develop new mechanics allowing to play FE. It was mentioned that it would require extremely complex system of internal politics that would be enjoyable for players. However I think the evolution of the game and ideas proposed by community will eventually result in DLC allowing to play Fallen Empire.

 

[Elderotter]

Making Fallen Empires playable either defeats their purpose, or makes for uncompelling gameplay.

They're supposed to be in the midst of stagnation, characterized by apathy/passivity.

I would definitely love to see the concept expanded in the future, though. Fallen Empires have the potential to create a lot of awesome stories.

Wiz said a core idea behind the Stellaris universe is 'the cycle', so perhaps after finishing a campaign you could reload the same world as a new species and see your original one as a Fallen Empire.

interesting idea.

 

[barny]

Not just that, it would be like playing France at tech level 20 and not being allowed to do anything.

Sure, some of the gameplay could be based around trying to break out of that "not allowed to do anything" mode, but then you're still France at tech level 20, so you're essentially playing on cheat mode.

That would be one of the two possibilities I meant: Either you wouldn't be allowed to do much, because you are a Fallen Empire or you could just conquer everybody without many problems.

 

[Ancap4508]

Playing a fallen empire seems like it would just be like playing the game with the feature of tech research disabled, since we would have everything already. Not as much fun for a campaign in my opinion. It would be nice, however, if the game doesn't prevent me from tag-switching to a FE to have, for example, a short casual challenge of seeing how fast I can conquer the galaxy or 1-on-1 defeat the Unbidden.

 

[aitaituo]

I don't see why they couldn't potentially be fun with an expansion specifically designed to make them playable. There are fun ways to approach playing as a crumbled state. For example, there could be mechanics that have you work towards unlocking one of the normal features of empires on success. In doing so, you may provoke a civil war, suffer pop unhappiness, see some of your starting ships desert, etc. The most sensible final reform would probably be to declare war when you please, enabling you to win a conquest victory.

Interacting with other empires could trigger various effects depending on what you do and your ethics. If you're a fanatical xenophobe and want to fight the end game Cthulhu monsters and they're on the other side of the galaxy, you may have to sacrifice one your hard fought reforms or risk a coup that orders the fleet home.

The hardest part would be Day 1. EUIV's fallen empire has normal diplomatic options and gameplay mechanics while you work on restoring its ancient glory. But some kind of story driven start could overcome that. Perhaps you don't begin as the leader of the FE, but as the equivalent of a sector governor and must first struggle to retake the reins of history.

 

[Otto of england]

They could make it so you could start as a post complete collapse Fallen Empire. Your society and empire has regressed to just a few systems and you have lost most of your techs and star maps. Importantly you will start with less pops than a normal empire would (instead of 6 on 1 planet you have say 3 on 3 planets).

What makes this different however is you start with some very powerful fleets that is irreplaceable for a century or two (since you have regressed to tech 1) and you are bitter rivals (the I want to kill your entire race kind) with another conventional fallen empire or you know that an insanely powerful extra galactic invasion will land almost on top of your position. Additionally you could find some other remnants of your empire else where who vary in their opinion of you.

 

[Alexander Seil]

So basically, they have to treat playable fallen empire like China in other paradox game.

They basically are China in Space. Paradox can probably think of something, hopefully better than just the 3 "factions" in EU4, for a DLC.

 

[EvilTom]

Playing a fallen empire seems like it would just be like playing the game with the feature of tech research disabled, since we would have everything already. Not as much fun for a campaign in my opinion. It would be nice, however, if the game doesn't prevent me from tag-switching to a FE to have, for example, a short casual challenge of seeing how fast I can conquer the galaxy or 1-on-1 defeat the Unbidden.

I don't think we would need to play with research disabled.

Some of the FEs might have lost some technologies on their old colony worlds or research stations when they were lost (depending on the reason for their fall). That would lead to some interesting play where after some research or someone colonises your ex-colony you are made aware and you have to reclaim it.

Otherwise there could ultra end game technologies that either give diminishing returns on efficiency or are so powerful or difficult to research they take years.