Planetary Habitability Overhaul

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PAnZuRiEL

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@Wiz

It's about 4:30 in the morning as I start writing this post, and I've been lying awake in bed for the last two and a half hours, unable to sleep because I'm compulsively devising a better planetary habitability system for Stellaris.

Planetary habitability in Stellaris has always irritated me. It was bad as originally designed, and still bad when redesigned. I understand that a simple grid of traits with falls in habitability for steps away from the starting point is bad from a balance point of view (because it heavily favours preference for planets in the middle), but I've finally had a eureka moment that fixes everything I hate about the current (and old) system while also completely retaining balance.

Originally I started thinking about a 3x3 grid, rating planets from hot to cold and from wet to dry. Species would prefer a single setting on each axis. Planets matching both settings would be good; planets matching one setting would be okay, and planets matching neither setting would be terrible. So a hot/wet preference would be okay on planets that were either hot or wet, and terrible on planets that were neither. That was fine for balance, but Gaia planets ruined the believability of the system for me.

Then I hit upon the crucial element: water. Water stabilises climates. Temperature varies less the more water there is. Dry deserts may be scorching hot during the day, but they also freeze at night. What Stellaris needs is not a square grid, but a 4x4 triangle, with Gaia planets in the middle. We need this arrangement:

Triangle.jpg


This triangle varies from coldest on the far left to hottest on the far right, and from driest at the top to wettest at the bottom. For sentient life, the centre is inherently the most habitable, and the three points the least habitable. Let's say the centre, Gaia, has a base habitability of 80%, the ring is 60%, and the points are 40%.

All sentient species have one of six climate preferences, corresponding to the points on the ring around the Gaia centre. They receive +20% habitability on this planet type (so starting at 80%). All adjacent points in the triangle have base habitability. Every additional step they're removed, habitability falls by 20% (deducted from its inherent base). Additionally, the species' own homeworld has +20% habitability, for a total of 100%. Note that in this system, Gaia worlds have 80% habitability for all species, not 100% (unless that Gaia world happens to be their homeworld, eg Sol III / Earth for humans; a Gaia homeworld should be an option for any playable empire, but very rare for randomly generated AI empires). This isn't really a nerf to Gaia worlds, because technology will easily raise their habitability to 100% in the mid-game and they're still the sweet spot for species coexistence.

So what does each hex on this triangle represent in terms of a named planet class? At the top is the Desert planet. Below Desert, we have left to right something like Boreal and Savannah. Below these, something like Glacial, Gaia (or Terran or Terrestrial which are basically synonyms), and Jungle. At the bottom are the wettest planets; something like Ice, Arctic, Ocean and Cyclone. All the specific names are really up for debate and I'm not too invested in the ones I've come up with, but the wet planets range from a mostly frozen one to a hot and stormy one (as a hot ocean world should have quite turbulent weather). Sentients will never have Ice preference or Desert preference or Cyclone preference and these can't be selected during empire creation, but presentients might (and would thereby be terrible for uplifting and settling other planets with, but them's the breaks). Sentients aren't really likely to evolve on worlds like these. Conversely, they're very likely to evolve on Gaia worlds, and Gaia worlds should really be inhabited by some kind of species to begin with as a general rule, as long as they haven't been cleansed in the distant past by a Holy Guardian.

So let's look at humans. Yes, Earth is a Gaia world, but humans don't have Gaia preference because there's simply no such thing, and it's not as if all climates on Earth are inhabited equally. Besides, all life prefers Gaia worlds in Stellarisverse. So which climate do humans actually prefer? Given our evolutionary history in the interior of Africa and the fact that we're land animals, I'm going to say relatively warm and dry, so the climate I've called Savannah. This means they have 100% habitability on Earth; 80% on Savannah and Gaia; 60% on Boreal and Jungle; 40% on Desert, Glacial, Arctic and Ocean; 20% on Cyclone, and 0% on Ice. Considering Antarctica is the region on Earth least inhabited by humans, this seems reasonable to me. I think humans should probably have the adaptable racial trait, though ... which makes sense, having evolved on a Gaia world!

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

Can we have this for Banks?

EDIT: Arguably this should go in "suggestions" rather than the main forum, but I think it would benefit from some debate.
 

Torakka

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I kinda like this idea, especially the part where there are some (barely) habitable planets that pretty much no-one prefers but can still settle. The ring of six planet classes is symmetric, so this would be balanced as long as the middle one and the extreme corners are unselectable. I would personally see the lack of meaningful distinction between four different types of wet planet as the biggest issue. (Three types with ice, temperate ocean and hot stormy ocean is still fine, but ice, kinda cold ocean, kinda warm ocean and hot stormy ocean just seems too much.)

However, this is most likely something that is deemed too complex and/or unintuitive by the developers, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting this to be implemented. Should be relatively simple to mod in though.
 

Azuraal

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One question, what benefits would this bring?
Would this create interesting decisions during gameplay? I don't think so.
Would it make the system easier to manage and understand? Ha, Ha, NO.
Would it allow for additional mechanics and functionality? Maybe, but it's design decision that planet classes are symetrical.

Secondly, This system is basicly the original habitability wheel with 3 additional planets that don't have preference trait.
 

terrycloth

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One question, what benefits would this bring?
Would this create interesting decisions during gameplay? I don't think so.
Would it make the system easier to manage and understand? Ha, Ha, NO.
Would it allow for additional mechanics and functionality? Maybe, but it's design decision that planet classes are symetrical.

Secondly, This system is basicly the original habitability wheel with 3 additional planets that don't have preference trait.

It adds:
Barely habitable worlds that basically no one likes.
An explanation for Gaia worlds that kind of makes sense.
Better symmetry than the current version (where there are three classes that can colonize each others' worlds but not any of the other two, with sharp demarcation).

And yeah, it is more like the original wheel.

I don't hate it. I don't hate the current system either, though. I think the 'terraform candidate' worlds will fill the niche this would be creating.
 

zukodark

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I dislike the idea of species starting on gaia worlds... Gaia worlds should be special (and more so than now). A planet easily habitable for all sentient beings should be something unique, not something you have on game start. In addition, the inability to have a species have something of temperate preference doesn't feel right. Well, boreal is sort of the same.

Your system only have 6 preferences, with the removal of desert, arid, continental and alpean, and only the addition of boreal (though I want that world type myself). There is always reasons, but taking away flavor options for the sake of a tiny bit more sense is not the way to go.

I don't think this overhaul is worth it. The current system works fine. I'd love something different, something more special. That would include a rework to make how habitability and worlds much more interesting at the same time, instead of just being a reshuffling on how it looks.
 

zukodark

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There are three main features people believe the habitability system should have: flavor/options, interesting balance and/or realism. It is quite probable any system won't satisfy all of these, and it might have to take a stance. Still, a downgrade in any of these regards feels terrible for a lot of people.

The goal of the system should probably be to make one of the three areas awesome, while keeping the other two at a similar or better level than the current one. I have yet seen a proposed system that fit that.
 

PAnZuRiEL

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Hardly working. It is not balanced enough. With your system, there are clearly better choices.
There are no better choices (except maybe a Gaia homeworld, but everyone can and no-one must select that). Each of the six sentient habitability preferences is completely equal to the others in terms of the distribution of habitability. Why do you think they're unequal?

Isn't this just the original system with marginal worlds?
Not exactly. This system makes "Gaia" worlds and "Continental" worlds the same thing (which they clearly already are, in terms of description), and scraps "Continental" preference because everything inherently prefers it.

This takes away player options- I'm against it. I'm happy with my desert-, arctic-, ocean-dwelling species, kthx.
Currently there are 9 choices for habitability, so you're technically correct. It would only be reverting to 6 though, which is what the game shipped with originally. More importantly, you may have fewer options, but they are also better options, and species are able to intermix on planets in an easier and more organic way, instead of all basically being locked into small non-overlapping planet groups like they are now (eg hot, cold, temperate).
 
Last edited:

PAnZuRiEL

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I don't think this overhaul is worth it. The current system works fine. I'd love something different, something more special. That would include a rework to make how habitability and worlds much more interesting at the same time, instead of just being a reshuffling on how it looks.
Look, frankly the most important thing in terms of actual planetary habitability isn't temperature or moisture, but chemistry. How much oxygen is in the atmosphere? How much hydrogen and nitrogen? How abundant is carbon? A planet might be "temperate" and "moist" but it's no good to us if all the "moisture" is in the form of hydrocarbons like petroleum and ethanol. But a system based on chemistry is too complicated for Stellaris and would mean far less habitability in general as well as mandatory terraforming. In reality, building orbital habitats is much easier than colonising the surfaces of other planets.

So it's the old system, without continental.
Not exactly, but I guess? It was continental and gaia worlds that basically ruined the plausibility of the old system, though.
 

Avian Overlord

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Look, frankly the most important thing in terms of actual planetary habitability isn't temperature or moisture, but chemistry. How much oxygen is in the atmosphere? How much hydrogen and nitrogen? How abundant is carbon? A planet might be "temperate" and "moist" but it's no good to us if all the "moisture" is in the form of hydrocarbons like petroleum and ethanol.
Nah, those are just toxic worlds.

Not exactly, but I guess? It was continental and gaia worlds that basically ruined the plausibility of the old system, though.
I would recommend making a mod which renames continental "temperate." Or however else you would describe Earth contrasted with alien ecosystems.
 

PAnZuRiEL

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Nah, those are just toxic worlds.
Toxic to terrestrial life. And that's an extreme example of different chemistry. Even relatively small differences in the proportion of nitrogen and oxygen in the atmosphere could have wide-ranging health and morbidity implications for humans.

I would recommend making a mod which renames continental "temperate." Or however else you would describe Earth contrasted with alien ecosystems.
Earth is clearly a Gaia world, though. I mean Gaia is literally just the Greek equivalent of Latin Terra. And read the in-game description of Gaia worlds: "An ideal, temperate world with a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere and a resilient ecosystem. Optimal conditions for all known higher forms of life at different latitudes." Firstly, this means that all higher forms of Stellaris life require the same chemistry, and secondly it describes Earth. Desert creatures can live in the desert. Ice creatures can live in the antarctic. Murderous or friendly starfish can live in the sea. Gaia planets literally are Earth. They're also not different from Continental worlds, other than something-something-abundance-of-life mumbling.
 

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I suggested a concept similar to this but in a square not a triangle,
My thought was that there are two types of continental worlds. Gaia worlds which should be the same if not buffed and revamped continental worlds. normal continental worlds maybe spawns if rngesus blesses you. basically they have tiles from at least three different kinds of biome on them, shittier than true gaia worlds but perfect for bbrining pops
 

dying0d

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Look, frankly the most important thing in terms of actual planetary habitability isn't temperature or moisture, but chemistry. How much oxygen is in the atmosphere? How much hydrogen and nitrogen? How abundant is carbon? A planet might be "temperate" and "moist" but it's no good to us if all the "moisture" is in the form of hydrocarbons like petroleum and ethanol. But a system based on chemistry is too complicated for Stellaris and would mean far less habitability in general as well as mandatory terraforming. In reality, building orbital habitats is much easier than colonising the surfaces of other planets.

http://www.popsci.com/science/artic...oxic-lake-suggesting-titan-could-support-life

Chemistry is irrelevant, if life can spring from nothing, it can spring from the harshest environments.

Those environments dictate the apex of their development, temperature, pressure and stability are probably better requirements for life than the arrogant "everything must be like earth life, because earth is the only life"

Plus, Sci fi. Nuff said

Edit: I'd point out the fact that the kingdom archea has some reaaaaaallllly bizarre stuff in it as well
 

PAnZuRiEL

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Chemistry is irrelevant, if life can spring from nothing, it can spring from the harshest environments.
You're preaching to the choir. I said chemistry is important for habitability, not for the presence of life at all. Life that evolved on a world we consider highly toxic probably wouldn't find our planet very hospitable either -- there would be a very low mutual habitability. But I don't think that kind of system is appropriate for Stellaris. Consider that almost all the aliens are basically Earth life but intelligent and spacefaring, and that every species can happily coexist on a Gaia world.
 

Seomis

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Look, frankly the most important thing in terms of actual planetary habitability isn't temperature or moisture, but chemistry. How much oxygen is in the atmosphere? How much hydrogen and nitrogen? How abundant is carbon? A planet might be "temperate" and "moist" but it's no good to us if all the "moisture" is in the form of hydrocarbons like petroleum and ethanol. But a system based on chemistry is too complicated for Stellaris and would mean far less habitability in general as well as mandatory terraforming. In reality, building orbital habitats is much easier than colonising the surfaces of other planets.

Virtually all life in Stellaris prefers a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere and liquid composed of water. Every habitable planet class has that in its description.
 

PAnZuRiEL

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Virtually all life in Stellaris prefers a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere and liquid composed of water. Every habitable planet class has that in its description.
Yes. I was talking about real life, not the game. Clearly all the life in-game is biased towards Earth-like chemistry, and a truly "realistic" model of habitability based on chemistry is inappropriate for the game.