Planet Automation - Discussion Thread

[borskwastaken]

Huge thanks for adding that 'prevent deficit construction' option! I would like to report an small issue with the automation in 3.6 beta: it sometimes builds hydroponics farms instead of farming districts. That doesn't break anything of course, but it is both cost and upkeep inefficient. I would like to suggest making it prioritize farming districts over farming buildings

 

[Devanor]

In regards to the Prevent Deficit Construction option, will it take the deficit in consideration even if said deficit is intentional?

I mean, if I normally have an outrageous production of minerals and I've reached the cap, and I create a monthly deal to get rid of the excess (so I have -10 or something monthly), will my industrial/forge/factory worlds look at that negative and think "nope, I won't build anything!" even though my automatic trades have 500+ minerals sold monthly?

 

[DC E1G]

Huge thanks for adding that 'prevent deficit construction' option! I would like to report an small issue with the automation in 3.6 beta: it sometimes builds hydroponics farms instead of farming districts. That doesn't break anything of course, but it is both cost and upkeep inefficient. I would like to suggest making it prioritize farming districts over farming buildings

I'm not sure if the logic for the planetary automation is similar to that for the AI empires, but I've noticed my vassals doing a similar thing.

 

[Douglas2341]

Hi, I'm the author of the Better Planet Automation mod, we've discussed some things in other threads before, and I really should have commented here before now.

Things that are necessary for me to be able to port my mod from sector automation to planet automation without losing functionality:

• Mod script feature to control districts in the same way as buildings.
• Mod script feature to bypass the free jobs check.
• Mod script feature to bypass any and all other hard coded conditions that might exist.
• Mod script feature to suppress any hard coded building behavior that might exist.
  • I haven't rechecked recently, but the last time I tested it, planet automation would build city districts on planets with no free building slots even if the mod scripts all universally said to build nothing, including the mod script for building slots management.
  • Alternatively, remove all such behavior from hard code entirely, leaving it exclusively in the moddable script files.
• In upgrade_trigger block, ability to distinguish between different levels of upgrades.
  • If a planet has both a basic Research Labs and an upgraded Research Complexes, the script should be able to control which of them to upgrade.
  • This might already be the case, I haven't tested it yet, but I also need for the upgrade_trigger block to be independent of the available block. I need to be able to upgrade existing Research Labs while at the same time forbidding building new ones.
• Check automation scripts and potentially queue new construction every day, not just on the turn of the month.
  • Alternatively, for better performance, let it be triggered by changes in the values it depends on. For my purposes it would suffice to add a run_planet_automation = yes script effect in planet scope.

For the transition, it would also greatly help to have a script effect to set planet automation to enabled. I would much prefer to have the mod update pop up a notification simply informing people about the change, and that adjusting their settings for it has already been handled, rather than pop up a notice telling people that they have to manually adjust settings now because only the UI can do it.

Things that are necessary for me to properly make good use of the new job_changes block:

• num_forbidden_jobs script trigger in planet scope, supporting both specific jobs and "any".
  • num_available_jobs would also be useful, but I have a workaround for that one by calculating it from job_<job>_add modifier and num_assigned_jobs trigger, and I could just update the calculation to subtract num_forbidden_jobs.
  • This information is needed for certain calculations my mod does.

Side note, I strongly suspect that a major cause of issues with amenities handling, in both automation and the AI, is the define value AI_UPPER_AMENITIES_LIMIT = 5 in common/defines/00_defines.txt. I consider that value ludicrously low, in light of the magnitude of how much amenities a single entertainer provides. The difference between the lower and upper AI limits for amenities should be large enough that no job can ever skip past the entire interval between them by employing or firing a single pop.

Things that are necessary for my mod to properly integrate with the planet automation's UI and configuration settings:

• Trigger condition has_automation_enabled = yes/no for planet scope.
  • The corresponding effect set_automation_enabled = yes/no would be nice to have too.
• Trigger condition has_automation_setting_enabled = <key> for planet scope. This trigger should accept each of the values defined in common/colony_automation_categories, including any from mod files.
  • The corresponding effects enable_automation_setting and disable_automation_setting would be nice to have.
  • If you really want to be thorough, you could add on_actions hooks for when those settings are changed, plus a trigger last_automation_setting_changed = <key>

Triggers that would give highly useful information that automation really should account for but currently cannot access:

• Value trigger num_districts_blocked = { type = <key/any> value = <variable> } for planet and deposit scopes.
  • Note that type = any should return the blocker's effect on the planet's overall max districts, not the total of each individual type of district the blocker is blocking. A Dense Jungle blocker that's blocking a Lush Jungle should evaluate as blocking 1 type = any district and 2 type = district_farming districts.

Important things I would like to see added to automation scripts:

• Mod script feature for queueing a blocker to clear.
• Mod script feature for queueing a planet decision that has an enactment_time.

If you want to review the other things I suggested before, that conversation is here. If you think it might be helpful, I could also do a call on discord to discuss things sometime.

P.S. If you could get Montu's attention and suggest reviewing my mod like he reviewed vanilla planet automation, that would be nice.

 

[Aerolfos]

I return once more with multiplayer saves. These are all vanilla, 3.6 beta, and show some development with automation on.

In particular, the hivemind saves have automation with a gigantic stockpile which isn't building nearly as much as it should be. There is unemployment literally everywhere, and it's capped some planets with stuff, but not all of them.

Notable, Cybrex Alpha where I did not enable housing automation and this seems to lock up the automation, when it should be making research districts for the housing+jobs. I did have gas to do this at some point, but automation spends it on upgrading labs.

Forge worlds are massively underdeveloped, despite having minerals to build more industrial districts.

Also, QOL suggestion, the automation tab should stay open when you swap between planets via the outliner, like how which tab you selected at the bottom is sticky. Would make it easier to not keep forgetting designation automation on worlds. I don't use the full automation settings on new colonies because of planet auto-designation and baby-sitting their early development, but want to re-enable it when planet is specialized and has settled down.

Also, disabling colony jobs is nice. They are terrible and suck up upkeep, disabling them is correct behaviour.

 

[Douglas2341]

Notable, Cybrex Alpha where I did not enable housing automation and this seems to lock up the automation, when it should be making research districts for the housing+jobs. I did have gas to do this at some point, but automation spends it on upgrading labs.

Forge worlds are massively underdeveloped, despite having minerals to build more industrial districts.

Maybe disabling housing automation blocks automation from building anything that gives housing, even if it should be built for a non housing reason?

 

[DarkyVX]

My problem with Planet Automation is that no matter how it does, it will still underperform compared to what the player personally feels is optimal, and the player is usually right with respect to their needs. By the time I'd have enough planets to need automation to take some off the workload off, I'd just release a vassal which, with the appropriate specialization and the difficulty bonuses, produces more than automation-result planets would anyway, without biting into my pop limit at that. Between two competing features, releasing a sector as a vassal just outright beats using automation since Overlord.

Therefore I'd personally prefer if the devs didn't waste too much time on this and instead improved other more pressing things about the game, like the current state of Federation fleets.

But that's just my 2 cents, I can understand why this matters to people who use this feature, I just wanted to point out that the use cases are a lot more specific than one might think and the problem itself is more technical than some of the more basic but broadly impactful changes that can be done.

Edit: I should mention that it probably makes a lot more difference for a Gestalt empire that can't release vassals, which probably makes them weaker than normal empires in the current state of the game.

 

[borskwastaken]

Hi, I just noticed an issue: planetary automation doesn't build anything on rogue servitor worlds as long as there are bio-trophy jobs available. Deprioritizing those jobs re-activates the automation

 

[Calvax]

Resort world automation seems broken. It just builds and upgrades enforcer buildings! This is with all options on. Maybe my “unruly” species was having too much fun on holiday.

 

[malakhglitch]

Hi, I just noticed an issue: planetary automation doesn't build anything on rogue servitor worlds as long as there are bio-trophy jobs available. Deprioritizing those jobs re-activates the automation

I don't have that problem. In my current game one of my guaranteed habitables is (currently) a generator world and the automation works just fine. I also never prioritize bio-trophy jobs simply because any bio-trophies, and only bio-trophies, can get bio-trophy jobs.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

Resort world automation seems broken. It just builds and upgrades enforcer buildings! This is with all options on. Maybe my “unruly” species was having too much fun on holiday.

Pretty sure this is because the resort world automation script predates crime automation, so it assumes you'll need enforcers because you aren't getting them from the capital building.

Resort world designation automation builds the following buildings in the following order:

1. Capital
2. Luxury Residences #1
3. Luxury Residences #2
4. Commercial Zones #1
5. Luxury Residences #3
6. Precinct Houses #1
7. Commercial Zones #2
8. Luxury Residences #4
9. Luxury Residences #5
10. Commercial Zones #3
11. Luxury Residences #6
12. Luxury Residences #7
13. Luxury Residences #8

Once you've got 3 Luxury Residences and a Commercial Zones, resort worlds will refuse to build anything except precinct houses unless you let it have one. It also gets stuck if you've got Shared Burdens, because it keeps trying to build Luxury Residences instead of Communal Housing. And it's conspicuously missing the ability to build a cultural monument.

With the advent of crime and housing automation, all the luxury residences can be removed, and it doesn't need to preemptively build the precinct houses - it should wait until there's actually at least 10 crime minimum, maybe more, and build a Psi Corps instead if available.

Mechanically speaking, resort worlds should be filled with strongholds and fortresses. They're subpar for trade because you can't build the galactic stock exchange and miss out on the urban world modifier, and they're subpar for unity because you lose the unity world modifier. They are exactly as effective at producing naval cap as fortress worlds though, despite being easier to conquer.

 

[Kanbie]

Love automation, my two bits of feedback:

I hate that my automated settlements do not automatically and aggressively upgrade the Capital/HQ building.
I hate that my automated habitats (Fortress and Generator ones) don't build the naval building and the Bio-Burner (25 food into 20 Energy).

What is the purpose of habitats? I build them and I automate them but they... suck? I feel like automation enables me to colonize tons of them but then they just sit there and do nothing. Generator habs don't build the bio-burner or other basic energy building, and the fortress worlds take forever to start construction on the naval building. (if they build it at all)

 

[Lorenerd11]

Something I wish I had mentioned in my earlier posts here: I think we could use a planet automation options for research labs and fortresses. Building research labs and fortresses on worlds not designated as tech world or fortress world is a very common, but also a very manual practice

 

[CometBliss]

I think what could also be a good idea is to make it so you can choose exactly what building you want to be automated. So you choose the build order and what not... idk just throwing out ideas.

 

[forbiddenlake]

I think what could also be a good idea is to make it so you can choose exactly what building you want to be automated. So you choose the build order and what not... idk just throwing out ideas.

Can you explain more what you mean and how that is different from queuing up the buildings you want in order?

 

[CometBliss]

Can you explain more what you mean and how that is different from queuing up the buildings you want in order?

Well, automation does it for you automatically. And also you cannot queue things like research labs until a building slot is available. It's not very easy for me to describe. But you can have queued up buildings once a building slot becomes available and automation can do that.

Hopefully this makes sense? If not lmk and I'll try chatgpt to describe it better.

 

[SeraphAscending]

Well, automation does it for you automatically. And also you cannot queue things like research labs until a building slot is available. It's not very easy for me to describe. But you can have queued up buildings once a building slot becomes available and automation can do that.

Hopefully this makes sense? If not lmk and I'll try chatgpt to describe it better.

I think that is largely what the designation is for.
You want automation to build research labs? Use the tech world designation and it will do that, while keeping amenities and stuff in check.
You want soldiers? Use the fortress world designation.

If you want to more specifically micromanage building schemes we are no longer talking of the same kind of automation. This system has a specific idea behind it and yours would be overriding most of it - thus building its own separate system.

I also think there is less need for it.
It is probably something that significantly fewer people would use.
By now i think a lot of people use the automation (or at least parts of it) when they play larger empires, because it is quite useful. Even if not as efficient as micromanaging, should you be so inclined, it's definitely not a hindrance if you forsake that small benefit of micromanagement, but focus on the bigger decisions. It's a good system in my eyes.

 

[stargazersatnight]

Here is my problem with it, I assume the automation will build planets the same way ai factions do.
I still on occasion see the ai do unbelievably stupid things like fill a planet with nothing but amenity buildings.
On the occasions that I have used it though, as long as I set a designation it seems to do all right. I do hesitate to use it, but I haven't caught it behaving stupidly yet.
I would like to be able to disable specific buildings as I don't find it needed to put gene clinics on Gaia worlds, but that is my only real suggestion.

 

[CometBliss]

I think that is largely what the designation is for.
You want automation to build research labs? Use the tech world designation and it will do that, while keeping amenities and stuff in check.
You want soldiers? Use the fortress world designation.

If you want to more specifically micromanage building schemes we are no longer talking of the same kind of automation. This system has a specific idea behind it and yours would be overriding most of it - thus building its own separate system.

I also think there is less need for it.
It is probably something that significantly fewer people would use.
By now i think a lot of people use the automation (or at least parts of it) when they play larger empires, because it is quite useful. Even if not as efficient as micromanaging, should you be so inclined, it's definitely not a hindrance if you forsake that small benefit of micromanagement, but focus on the bigger decisions. It's a good system in my eyes.

Well, I think what I want is more over to fix my ocd... I like having certain buildings in certain spots and wish I could move some over in order to keep it organized.