Pirates that don't belong to any country.

[Hojsimpson]

The only way they pirates are represented is through the barbary states, and they can only raid the mediterranean.
I know other nations can privateer, but that's not piracy.

Adding Pirates that roam the seas pillaging treasure fleets and ocean coasts, with events after dealing with them or nations that spawn if they are not dealt with would add more flavor to peace time and colonization, while also making navies more significant.

 

[withche.07]

I think this could be added into game, completely my idea:
Add game historical pirate activity regions (mediterrenean, caribbean, chinese seas, madagascar even india directly comes to my mind)
These could be represented similar to rebels, they can create their own nation in coastal regions, islands if you can't deal with them.

By the way pirates can raid further. Morocco tree has mission to raid Iceland which is quite awesome.

 

[fr-rein]

I agree.

As one way to boost piracy, you could create a pirate estate - which is not pirates per se, but actually the free ports and pirate havens which accept any pirates and allow more of them in the local waters. As a result, a number of "neutral" pirates attacking anyone would be sailing around, depending on the "pirate estates" present in the region. Surely it hurts you too, but in case you're an underdog in the region (like Britain was) it would be geared to harm your opponent.
Unlike other estates, they wouldn't tend to be very influential - but having a number of different aspects to them, mostly about trade, smuggling, autonomy and such. And, of course, you could "buy" their obedience and hire them or make them kind of settle in your colonies.

Estate mechanics would probably be very fitting for them after all, as it allows a rich number of interactions, making them a real subject on the map and an object of politics.

 

[3ishop]

They had random pirates spawn in the earlier game, was not a fun mechanic and was pointless. Just randomly a handful of light ships or heavies spawning in a sea tile that would wreck any small nations and the large nations trade fleets would then wreck the pirates.

 

[fr-rein]

They had random pirates spawn in the earlier game, was not a fun mechanic and was pointless. Just randomly a handful of light ships or heavies spawning in a sea tile that would wreck any small nations and the large nations trade fleets would then wreck the pirates.

Because it was random and unprofitable for anyone. Besides, the old mechanics would throw random pirates at you in the middle of Pacifics.
What I meant was to make estate serving as a pirate hub, which not only would allow your AND OTHER corsairs to use it as a base (because lets agree, currently it is VERY obvious who employs corsairs), but would limit the number of ports accessible to corsairs and make those who host them partially responsible for all piracy (and could, for example, demand to close pirate ports in peace treaties, which would make them inactive for a while).
It also allows not only to spawn a number of neutral pirates who would make unknown to the enemy the true numbers of their fleet in the region, but also make a number of events.
For example, you said that small nations suffer from it more than others. But what if they had an option to choose to pay to the corsairs fee to pass and trade? Of course it would be scaling and not appliable to the local leaders/sea empires - at least not at a cheap price. This could be used to increase dev of the pirate port, making a benefit to the hosts of the port - for example, as a Britain if you're an underdog in Carribean trade you would probably win more from spawning more piracy and harming Spain. Same applies to France and others. I know that it would be kinda nerfing Spain, but... it's not like people don't question the current balance anyway, so why not include pirates in the equation?

Another thing would be that in a region like Carribean pirate ports could spawn spontaneously and once spawned, it would take some effort to close them. So, such a port would be also a source of unwanted problems, tolerated by the fact that it at least brings income and harm to enemy.
And it keeps 2 features of the previous models: dangers of random threat and the fact that the threat is controllable. Not to mention that once your fleet will be able to swim in pirate ports of other countries, you will gain a rather sweet anonymity. Of course, it's not like you will be unable to guess who is behind the pirates, but it would be a rather good way to establish "fog of war" for such regions. And there is a precedent of pirates going to war on the side of certain nations, so it is very plausible. And... it is done via the existing mechanics, estates. Which means that amount of things that should be added would be not that big (for example, current Cossack estate shows that a lot could be done with estates).

 

[Hojsimpson]

Actually now that states are free, and they said they were going to expand it, sounds to have a corsair state.

 

[3ishop]

Because it was random and unprofitable for anyone. Besides, the old mechanics would throw random pirates at you in the middle of Pacifics.
What I meant was to make estate serving as a pirate hub, which not only would allow your AND OTHER corsairs to use it as a base (because lets agree, currently it is VERY obvious who employs corsairs), but would limit the number of ports accessible to corsairs and make those who host them partially responsible for all piracy (and could, for example, demand to close pirate ports in peace treaties, which would make them inactive for a while).
It also allows not only to spawn a number of neutral pirates who would make unknown to the enemy the true numbers of their fleet in the region, but also make a number of events.
For example, you said that small nations suffer from it more than others. But what if they had an option to choose to pay to the corsairs fee to pass and trade? Of course it would be scaling and not appliable to the local leaders/sea empires - at least not at a cheap price. This could be used to increase dev of the pirate port, making a benefit to the hosts of the port - for example, as a Britain if you're an underdog in Carribean trade you would probably win more from spawning more piracy and harming Spain. Same applies to France and others. I know that it would be kinda nerfing Spain, but... it's not like people don't question the current balance anyway, so why not include pirates in the equation?

Another thing would be that in a region like Carribean pirate ports could spawn spontaneously and once spawned, it would take some effort to close them. So, such a port would be also a source of unwanted problems, tolerated by the fact that it at least brings income and harm to enemy.
And it keeps 2 features of the previous models: dangers of random threat and the fact that the threat is controllable. Not to mention that once your fleet will be able to swim in pirate ports of other countries, you will gain a rather sweet anonymity. Of course, it's not like you will be unable to guess who is behind the pirates, but it would be a rather good way to establish "fog of war" for such regions. And there is a precedent of pirates going to war on the side of certain nations, so it is very plausible. And... it is done via the existing mechanics, estates. Which means that amount of things that should be added would be not that big (for example, current Cossack estate shows that a lot could be done with estates).

Then you aren't talking about pirates but a tweak the the existing privateer system.

 

[fr-rein]

Then you aren't talking about pirates but a tweak the the existing privateer system.

But pirates *were* privateers. Not all of them, but many were.
I am not going into immersive details for pirates or tell how to redo privateering. I just offer a framework (distantly similar to Cossacks but better) for them to work around - the pirate estate. You have random pirates there, you have regular privateers, you have a fog-o-war to make the real composition of pirates unknown. The presence of pirate estate makes pirates not a random event, some sort of troops or annoying random spawn like it was earlier. No, it makes them a social class, a social group represented via existing mechanics. It is a core difference between what existed and exists and what could be. It gives pirates subjectiveness in game, the very thing they lack.
And it works for all pirates - from Mediterranean to New World, from Madagascar to China. A bonus thing is that now you won't get tons of pirates in every sea as pirates would require a pirate hub - which could be more troublesome than profitable in some places.

How you hire them, what kind of privateering there will be and other flavour shmavour and such are details.

 

[FantasticFwoosh]

In itself, pirates being amphibious rebels works fine given how peasants tend to trash the land they roll across to siege without a fortress present. Land based rebels transform into transports & a fleet adequately leveraged for the funding they have with or without heavies while pirates do the opposite and turn into soldiers with peglegs and eyepatches when they come ashore noticably weaker or equal to the size of the fleet. Rather than warping over distance.

• Plundered by Corsairs - 15% devastation provincial modifier on pirate siege win + whatever damage they manage to do by sieging.

• Pirate/rebel ships blockading the coast to help enforce .50 demands

• Pirate rebel objectives may end up being to cede a custom country within a province for them, like the Cossacks's custom nations.

How long until we get a pirate model pack for Barbary and others?

 

[3ishop]

But pirates *were* privateers. Not all of them, but many were.
I am not going into immersive details for pirates or tell how to redo privateering. I just offer a framework (distantly similar to Cossacks but better) for them to work around - the pirate estate. You have random pirates there, you have regular privateers, you have a fog-o-war to make the real composition of pirates unknown. The presence of pirate estate makes pirates not a random event, some sort of troops or annoying random spawn like it was earlier. No, it makes them a social class, a social group represented via existing mechanics. It is a core difference between what existed and exists and what could be. It gives pirates subjectiveness in game, the very thing they lack.
And it works for all pirates - from Mediterranean to New World, from Madagascar to China. A bonus thing is that now you won't get tons of pirates in every sea as pirates would require a pirate hub - which could be more troublesome than profitable in some places.

How you hire them, what kind of privateering there will be and other flavour shmavour and such are details.

Generally what people view as Pirates were and it becomes rather interchangeable but Pirate is intended for those who will attack any ship.

Problem is all the other estates were wide spread groups, if they are only limited to a single province then they don't really work as an estate. With the number of nations each having the estate there will be hundreds of pirate hubs as a result.

 

[fr-rein]

Generally what people view as Pirates were and it becomes rather interchangeable but Pirate is intended for those who will attack any ship.

Problem is all the other estates were wide spread groups, if they are only limited to a single province then they don't really work as an estate. With the number of nations each having the estate there will be hundreds of pirate hubs as a result.

I disagree.
You can take a look at the Cossacks, which are rather limited in region (even too limited). I think that some reasonable limitations could also be applied to pirates, confining them to the coastal provinces meeting some requirements.
In my opinion, one of these requirements could be a low development. It makes sense as for example it was a reason for the Baltic pirates to keep their activities. Low prosperity drove many to do that. In Caribbean, many not so developed islands could thus become pirate hubs.
The hard part would be defining when piracy thrives and when it dies out. But in the end, it makes more sense than privateer pirates being everywhere and nearly all the time.

 

[FantasticFwoosh]

Piracy would truly die around the time of the Age of revolution or least go into decline, as traditional pirates were all hunted down by professional navies and their hiding spots raided by the authorities. Prior to that, the mid 17th century is often described of being the 'Golden Era of Pirates' so could notably create a increase of pirate activity and events across the world. There's still notable pirates before then, not least the cock-hen of clanricarde female pirate, which in admirality could represent some traits assigned to pirates for rights of man owners like innate privateering or boarding power to differentiate them without changing the women in history DLC event.

• Oruc Ries (AKA redbeard//Barbarossa) is a infamous pirate im suprised isn't already represented in the Ottomans and Maghrebi nations makes good reading on the fluidity of the motivation and actions of pirates that don't particularly just lean on just funding self sufficiency for that lifestyle.

To put it in game terms, whoever owns Djerba would have to deal with Redbeard events prompting to either cede over the island to pirates willingly with some form of incentive or face down a large stack of pirate rebels with the objective to install Redbeard as ruler. This only delays a direct confrontation with redbeard to comply with the demands to cede djerba, but the recompensation in the meantime would mean you have more time to prepare.

If Redbeard succeeds the coup which to some players may be preferable if stats are favourable as a ruler, over time they will be confronted with a event chain to become a vassal of the Ottomans like Crimea or suffer a large relationship hit.

 

[withche.07]

I have written about couple of famous pirates Barbarossa(Oruç Reis), Jan Janszoon(Murat Reis younger), Jack Ward(Yusuf Reis), Sayyida Al Hurra(she was working with Barbarossa), Zymen Danseker(Süleyman Reis)
and pirate nations in my thread, luckily they are adding Sale and Tetouan from the thread:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ble-barbary-pirate-state-possibility.1083790/

Other famous Barbary corsairs

• Kemal Reis (c. 1451–1511)
• Gedik Ahmed Pasha (died 1482)
• Sinan Reis (died 1546)
• Piri Reis (died 1554 or 1555)
• Turgut Reis (1485–1565)
• Sinan Pasha (died 1553)
• Kurtoğlu Muslihiddin Reis (1487–c. 1535)
• Kurtoğlu Hızır Reis
• Salih Reis (c. 1488–1568)
• Seydi Ali Reis (1498–1563)
• Piyale Pasha (c. 1515–1578)
• Raïs Hamidou (1773–1815)
• Uluç Ali Reis (1519–1587)
• Ali Bitchin (c. 1560–1645)
• Simon de Danser or Simon Reis (c. 1579–c. 1611)
• Salomo de Veenboer or Sulayman Reis (died 1620)
• Murat Reis the Elder (c. 1534–1638)
• Murat Reis the Younger (c. 1570–after 1641)

We still don't have detailed information about these nations and people, they might have new government type, they might include new events about famous pirates, I don't know.

But I really liked Djerba idea of @FantasticFwoosh . Those events would be really fun, and historical at the same time.

I disagree.
You can take a look at the Cossacks, which are rather limited in region (even too limited). I think that some reasonable limitations could also be applied to pirates, confining them to the coastal provinces meeting some requirements.
In my opinion, one of these requirements could be a low development. It makes sense as for example it was a reason for the Baltic pirates to keep their activities. Low prosperity drove many to do that. In Caribbean, many not so developed islands could thus become pirate hubs.
The hard part would be defining when piracy thrives and when it dies out. But in the end, it makes more sense than privateer pirates being everywhere and nearly all the time.

And yes, this is why I think pirates should be limited to north african coastal provinces (including atlantic) + mediterrenean islands (and maybe canary), caribbean coastal provinces, madagascar coastal provinces, maybe some parts of china and india, and that's pretty much it.

 

[fr-rein]

And yes, this is why I think pirates should be limited to north african coastal provinces (including atlantic) + mediterrenean islands (and maybe canary), caribbean coastal provinces, madagascar coastal provinces, maybe some parts of china and india, and that's pretty much it.

Also Reunion and some other islands...
But well, there were Japanese pirates too. And Indonesia region too if I remember right. Baltic had piracy as well until it got extinct.

I think that piracy should depend on certain factors rather than be fully scripted. This said, I don't know enough about pirates to go into details. I just like the idea of reviving Baltic piracy and/vikings in a way. I wonder if such althistorical ideas about vikongs are inspired by HoI4-like missions.

 

[FantasticFwoosh]

I couldn't fish out any particular names with a brief search that were interesting historically any more than being a stand-in admiral (some norwegian pirates), but Gotland as per the history of Baltic slave raiding in the late 14'th century before piracy was outlawed and destruction overseen by the Grandmaster of the Teutonic Order given that the King of Sweden at the time even passed the ownership of the island along because they believed it was the only way to eject them.

Id like to add that i think as a condition, all islands should be given extra priority by pirates if at all rebels were to spawn there, in the vacuum of low Burgher estate loyalty + because often while merchant ships are a target, organised guilds of merchants will often as much not ensure that the trade routes are safe by means of hiring escorts, not having the nessecary loyalty can prompt pirate rebels to spawn (anywhere) and especially in a Burgher crisis pirates could wreak havoc.

Some event chains for Denmark, Gotland themselves (taking advantage or being inconvenienced by the rabblerousing) the Teutons & Sweden should all play a part.

• Say you're Denmark or Sweden taking inappropriate or aggrevating actions after the course of the noble rebels that spawn in 1444 may mean that you lose control of the island to pirates and it forms a bizzaro pirate centric Gotland. Your vassals & PU partners will be pushed forward at least once to habour minor pirate nations in response which will raise liberty desire.

• As the Teutons or Hansa (potentially Livonia/Novgorod) you'll be told about this and justifiably all get claims upon until a better method is devised to fight back against pirate influence. Just by proxy make them hate the owner for being so careless.

• Meanwhile as vassal Gotland gets choices to become pirates in a transition that ups their liberty desire for lots of concessions before they pass the final threshold to transition into a pirate nation like the Maghreb ones & instantly start a independence war or have to fight off the rebels.

Amusingly enough, "Pirate Gotland" translates directly into Norwegian to "Piratland" or "Pirat Gotland" in other baltic languages so i most definitely support the Pirate gotland alternative flag state. Maybe its just synonymous in the region.

Achievement: Corsair Smorgasbord: As a Pirate nation own 80% trade power majority from privateering in the Baltic Nodes.

 

[Hojsimpson]

Suggestion succeeded bros, we did it

 

[FantasticFwoosh]

Very good, while this is happening ill throw down the gauntlet and ask that Pirates in the baltic region can have a relevant event that allows them to convert to Norse.

Sort of like the Nahuatl event holding Cholula temple, except exemplified as by means of living the lifestyle of their ancestors put them back in touch, consulting the player whether they would like a conversion to this long dead religion.

 

[neondt]

Very good, while this is happening ill throw down the gauntlet and ask that Pirates in the baltic region can have a relevant event that allows them to convert to Norse.

Sort of like the Nahuatl event holding Cholula temple, except exemplified as by means of living the lifestyle of their ancestors put them back in touch, consulting the player whether they would like a conversion to this long dead religion.

No. Make a custom nation

 

[FantasticFwoosh]

No. Make a custom nation

Or convert off a random new-world generated Secret Denmark. Gotcha.

 

[Kane_hun]

Or convert off a random new-world generated Secret Denmark. Gotcha.

You actually need Vinland (and animist before that) because Secret Denmark is Zoroastrian. I wish there was an easier way into becoming Norse in ironman.