This is a revelation for me. Didn't realise it worked like that. I've been going way overboard on piracy protection in that case. So I've probably been making micro for myself.
Thanks for sharing
Piracy micro management has turned the game into Shelfware for me
- Thread starter Gray_Lensman
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Thanks for sharing
It would be nice if trade protection from Starbases would apply to the space of a subject so if your trade has to go through their space it's not protected only by their fleet/starbases.
Seeing as how I often use the phrase "needless micro" I assume that is directed at me. I also assume you didn't see my post where I'm recommending another [better?] system that would allow the player to make the high-level decisions while not having to manually scan the map in 'pirate mode' every 5 minutes to look for hotspots.
Specifically in my proposal piracy could cause permanent losses of active trade AND you'd get no excess food, minerals, energy, alloys, CG, strategics, etc. AT ALL from entire sectors where piracy is too high.
I'd be happy to go into much greater detail but I figured not everybody would have the stamina to read through the whole proposal including UI adjustments, notifications, etc.
EDIT: Summary: I'd like to have even a harsher system so not paying attention to piracy would punish you MORE. I just don't think the current implementation is up-to-snuff seeing as you can't easily custom configure piracy protection routes and similar. Letting the AI handle patrol routes or trade escort missions or similar would be fine by me. Player decides how many fleets, to what sectors, etc.
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Your post didn't complain about micro, but...I think your suggestions still require a bit of work and aren't any more meaningful than what we already have. Starbases and trade routes are still important in determining where and how much piracy there is, and I don't want sectors managing those, nor do you suggest that. Fleets on patrol already run themselves, so what's the difference between that and telling sectors (whose shape and size you can't change -- do you really want to have to work around *that*?) to have fleets patrolling? Now that we have the fleet manager, you already have a mechanism to specify how many ships and replenish/enhance as needed with basically two or three clicks. Trade routes don't change a whole lot, so you rarely have to change where your fleets are except to add new ones. And for the once in a while when you do...what's the big deal? Play the game instead of having it play itself for you. You should optimize your piracy protection instead of having the game figure it all out for you.
For the others who are actually complaining about needless micro, I'm honestly trying to figure out what people want to actually do in this game when they keep complaining about having to spend any time actually playing it. Managing the economy is micro, piracy is micro, expanding is micro, etc. Do you want to just watch a movie or do you want to play a game? I don't think we need to add another element where the game plays itself. Yes, you should have to take the time to look at where piracy is becoming a problem and take steps to deal with it. It shouldn't be automatic.
Actually I did. First sentence of 2nd paragraph. I did have more than one post in the thread so it may have been buried ....
How so? What elements were lacking?? EDIT: No seriously I'm looking for honest feedback.
Eliminating a lot of the need to scan for piracy manually [because we're not notified of high values] is a worthwhile element. Add in attempts to make this more of an "empire management game" & increase "immersion" are also steps in the right direction.
Note: I removed the description of the whole system and summarized what I would rather see. I'd be happy to expand on that if you're interested.
With the current system you are correct. Starbases and trade routes are absolutely indispensable. However alternatives could exist to the current system that de-emphasizes the range [or even role] of the Starbase in trade protection.
Actually I do. Second sentence, second paragraph. At least I talk about automation of piracy patrols and letting the sectors govern that. As far as trade route paths it's more than fair to allow such paths to be managed by the player as that adds a reasonable element to the game. However my system allows for not bothering with that and sending a fleet to sector capitals to gather up any trade for later redistribution as needed. Note: I'm not necessarily talking just trade but any excess production -- food, alloys, strategics, "trade", etc.
I guess you didn't know that you can't customize a complex route for fleets right? At least I lost that ability in 2.2.3 [bug??]. Also with those routes being static that implies that micro is needed to scan and reroute piracy routes as new situations demand. You may also need to break up fleets so you have smaller ones [or require more ships] due to a lack of control. Given those limitations I'd MUCH rather have a sector AI manage piracy patrol fleets OR to change the system so it's more an issue of "trade escort missions" as opposed to "piracy suppression". Mixing the two is also a way to go.
As for working around sector size & shape you ARE correct. As sectors change in size / shape / piracy threat / etc. actively letting the player know that detrimental piracy effects are occurring is appropriate so the player can adjust to the new reality. That beats constantly scanning for anything missed. YMMV.
Agree 100%. I'm just asking for MORE tools to help us implement the nitty-gritty of decision making. OK I'm asking for more immersion too so you got me
True but seeing as I tend to play tall-ish with MANY more starbases than actual planets I find that basic the trade metric at the sector level makes more sense to me. Basically my sectors tend to be more static than starbases so that's why I have that view.
If your game settings & playstyle are different enough then the best system for you would certainly be "starbase-related".
I'm sure the devs have enough game statistics that they have the information about what's better for the player base as a whole.
Well I contend you may be overlooking that the value of what's at one end or the other of certain trade routes may change. To monitor this the current system requires you to manually rescan in piracy mode for buildups of piracy due to trade increasing. My recommendation is that I get an alert from the sector governor and then I decide if I need to reroute trade OR assign more ships OR do something else to minimize piracy impact.
So my thoughts are the old system "plays you" while I'd propose that the opposite would be better.
It's simple. I suspect many players would to prefer to be making more high-level & strategic decisions. I suspect many players don't want to be mindlessly scanning 10, 20, 100 planets making sure that "Joe & Suzy" have enough amenities at this point in time on their particular planet.
Basically I suspect many people don't mind a lot of the current systems HOWEVER those systems become un-fun when you get 'too many' planets, sectors, trade routes, etc. I'd rather be spending my time deciding things like:
- What can I bribe my hostile neighbor with to keep them from attacking me
- How many fleets do I need if my bribes aren't successful
- Where should I build up static defenses
- Is the neighboring empire weak enough to declare war on so that it otherwise doesn't detrimentally impact the long term prospects of my empire
- What agreements can I be making
- Where should I disposition my main fleets? Do I have enough alloy or ship re-enforcements available?
- What are my next policy picks?
- How am I doing [overall] economically? Should I use an edict [or whatever] to encourage more alloy production?
- Is it time to update policies?
- How are my species mix? Time for any new Gene or Robo templates?
Note: I've opted for white peace before not because I "needed" to militarily but because I was getting tired of constantly pausing to babysit yet another easy decision that would have been better made via automation / tools / etc.
This is where you hit the nail on the head. I don't mind piracy, I just mind the implementation, particularly the busywork arising from managing trade protection in a sprawling empire of hundreds of systems and dozens of trade nodes. If the system was more intuitive and simplified (merge the concepts of trade suppression and protection please), had less bugs (CTD from trying to reroute trade, yay) and a better UX (easier visualization of protection, jump to starbase by right click from the trade menu) it'd be an entirely different ballgame.
One thing I don't get about piracy is how it spawns in a systems that are regularly patrolled by a squadron of corvettes and destroyers. Most of the times they spawned in, the patrol shows up in short order, steamrolls the pirates and resumes patrolling without any input from me. So how is the system so lawless if it is not only patrolled, but any attempt by pirates to do anything always get smashed in short order? I have huge starbases everywhere too.
I like the concept but not it's implementation because it seems fairly nonsensical to me.
I like the concept but not it's implementation because it seems fairly nonsensical to me.
I was replying to the post I quoted, and I did not remember your first post from the beginning of the thread, which I did read at an earlier time. I'm sorry my attempt to provide information seemed like an attack or a critique of you and your gaming skills. That was not my intention. As you pointed out, I provided you with information of which you were clearly already aware, and it seems possible that if I had re-read the entire thread, I might have realized that you and i were making very similar points. Or maybe I still would have made the same mistake.
Based on all the threads about trade right now, it seems like a lot of people are having difficulties with the new systems. I find the new trade system to be quite manageable, and so I've been trying to offer my insights on these threads in the hopes that other players might understand the systems better and have a more enjoyable experience. I never intentionally "shitpost," or try to tear anyone down on these forums. Misunderstandings happen. Sorry I misunderstood your post.
It's all good man, honestly I owe you an apology for snapping at you.
I was in a pissy mood when I posted, and that's always a mistake.
But you then miss out on the Deep Space Blacksite for those planets.
In some cases, I'd rather have the stability than the trade (although I don't think the two are incompatible).
3350. That beats my record. How many wonders did you end up building?
Dude, just build a bunch of bastion citadels and let them take care of the job. One fully-upgraded starbase can protect six hyperlane jumps away. That's pretty effective and basically eliminates micro-management
I get the impression that a lot of Stellaris systems don't scale up well.
Impressive.
Start a thread, throw your hands in the air and don't even try to get a solution that isn't that dependent on micromanagement.
Oh, and pre-emptively dismiss anyone who might actually dare to enjoy interacting with trade at all as a "fanboy"?
You win the *special* prize...
After all there are solutions (early on some corvette patrols, later on setting up static defences on the major trade routes, or lining the major trade routes with upgraded star bases of *any* kind) which don't require anything that could be realistically considered micromanagement, since they're pretty much set up and leave to run.
Just use a mod to disable piracy. We have already too much micro in 2.2 we dont need piracy its not fun
Step 1. Don't build starbases on any systems in which you intend to collect trade
Step 2. 1 Trade hub(having multiple trade hubs can make things screwy with Gateways)
Step 3. Gateways(1 gateway in the trade hub system)
Step 4. Paradox fixes Gateway lag(turn of the month now?)
Step 5. Profit
This can be merged with some other strategies like building starbases in a line out to your trade hub, to efficiently position it for early game coverage.
Current system is not super great though. The lag created by the calculations is reason enough to get rid of the route mechanic.
Step 2. 1 Trade hub(having multiple trade hubs can make things screwy with Gateways)
Step 3. Gateways(1 gateway in the trade hub system)
Step 4. Paradox fixes Gateway lag(turn of the month now?)
Step 5. Profit
This can be merged with some other strategies like building starbases in a line out to your trade hub, to efficiently position it for early game coverage.
Current system is not super great though. The lag created by the calculations is reason enough to get rid of the route mechanic.