Pillage Capital - is this mechanic going to be useful again?

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GrandEurypterid

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It's worth noting that there's inherent value in having additional points in your capital specifically, and concentrated into specific provinces more generally. Additionally, any country that can move its capital for free is going to be able to use it more frequently; Ethiopia is the obvious one, but many countries will move their capital on formation, for events, or upon mission completion as well. I'm most of the way through the Mewar Never Changes achievement, and there's about three different missions that relocate your capital to different places in their mission tree.

Firstly, there's the obvious- govcap. Any development in your capital is much cheaper than anywhere else in your state. The more you can extract, the cheaper it'll be.

Secondly, there's a lot of opportunity cost in grabbing new provinces. Taking highly-developed capital provinces is always going to be expensive, and anything you take is going to have years of startup time in rebellions, high autonomy and other factors such as religious conversion before it's actually a productive part of your nation. Shoving dev in your capital, meanwhile, is just an instant boost that causes you precisely zero problems, with very few exceptions.

Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, many extremely good modifiers are to a single province only! Any resource you invest in a high-dev, well-placed capital is going to get massively better returns than it would in any other province. To summarise a few possibilities-
-Trade goods are perhaps the most obvious one, and manifest in a variety of ways. There's the direct price, of course. Then there's the per-province trade good modifier, and the 'trading in' bonuses on top. For example, cocoa has over +150% trade good value at the end of the game compared to grain, and additionally adds +10% manpower to your province, with an extra +5% manpower recovery speed if you dominate the trade enough for Trading In to happen.
-Fort defence is per-province, and you get +1 in your capital, so it's a lot easier and more worthwhile to defend a fortified capital than anywhere else you have.
-Buildings are a flat cost regardless of development, so the better the province you put them in, the better they are. And they often combo, too- spending 100 gold for +50% production efficiency is much better on a 40-dev capital with Cloves than a 20-dev province with fish.
-If you haven't tried the Expand Infrastructure button, give it a go! It's currently bugged to delete all the bonuses if you make a new nation, but you can buff pretty much every single part of a province if you click it, at the cost of govcap. If it's in your capital province, though, you can mostly mitigate that govcap cost! Later in the game you can centralise the state to reduce its gov cost even further.

A lot of these bonuses are most useful in the early game- when buildings are still expensive, your capital fort is a vital part of your war defence, rebels are a significant threat, and institutions are basically never easily-available unless you dev them or you're in Europe. Additionally, many of these bonuses are better for 'comfy' playthroughs that expand more slowly for slow-and-steady progress instead of fighting an endless number of rebels; it's pretty useful in the HRE. So while it's often very situational if you're trying to play meta, certain playthroughs and countries are going to make much better use of the button.
 

iClipse

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I'm guessing the feature won't be changed anymore.

Still, adding some kind of overflow mechanic would make sense, where if it can't increase dev in your capital it should increase dev in your capital's state's other provinces, or general provinces of your primary culture.
 
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Nostalgium

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I'm guessing the feature won't be changed anymore.

Still, adding some kind of overflow mechanic would make sense, where if it can't increase dev in your capital it should increase dev in your capital's state's other provinces, or general provinces of your primary culture.
I've previously advocated for some kind of "pillage target" mechanic, similar to Crown Focus from EU3. With this mechanic, Pillage would go to the specific province, and Concentrate Development would spread dev around the state, of the province that the target was in. This way you could use Pillage and Concentrate to build up a robust heartland, rather than just one megapolis.
 
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necro84

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I've previously advocated for some kind of "pillage target" mechanic, similar to Crown Focus from EU3. With this mechanic, Pillage would go to the specific province, and Concentrate Development would spread dev around the state, of the province that the target was in. This way you could use Pillage and Concentrate to build up a robust heartland, rather than just one megapolis.
In first dev diary when it was announced there was similar description and 50% of dev supposed to go to the capital and rest to other states. Pillage capital also suppoosed to pillage whole state and not just one province

Fifty percent of that development will be going directly to your capital, while thirty percent will be distributed randomly among stated provinces, while the final twenty percent is lost.

In that case, just use the new “Pillage Capital”(™) peace treaty, which will concentrate development on their capital state
 
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bokorthedust

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In first dev diary when it was announced there was similar description and 50% of dev supposed to go to the capital and rest to other states. Pillage capital also suppoosed to pillage whole state and not just one province
And it worked kinda like that, though how the game allocated some of the gain was unclear, at least to me. I remember in a Spain game I grew my capital into the thousands, and Asturias in the north got to 81 dev, another TC province in SEA got like 40, and there were some others which I no longer remember dotted around the map that have grown to the 30-40 range without my or the AI's own investment or concentrations.
 

Masyanya028

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Favor system was nerfed too. First release was good to play as, especially when your are "tall diplo.rep Swiss with only 3 states maximum" so you could get money and stuff. So now we have 5 year CD on this applied to all allies (which is stupid), "Place relative on the throne" is now cockblocked in Hard and Very Hard (again, super stupid, AI on V.H. lucky nations iron man is now pretty powerful, especially PU-relevant nations). It gives you 20 AE and you need still wait for your dynasty heir to come. Often it's possible 20-25 year king with your "placed" 21 year heir, and he can die easily from old age or get killed etc...
 

I like wars and maps

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Pillage capital should give you gold once it cant give you dev anymore. You are quite literaly pillaging the chance that your soldiers get to just keep all the loot is stupid since everything is taxed in this cruel world.
 
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MachopPower69

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Pillage capital should give you gold once it cant give you dev anymore. You are quite literaly pillaging the chance that your soldiers get to just keep all the loot is stupid since everything is taxed in this cruel world.
On top of this, Pillaging the capital should:

1. Reduce development from 1-5 development
2. Give scorched earth penalties for 6 months.
3. Give the pillager all of the loot that was unlooted
4. Give the pillaged state a development cost of about 10% since the land is ruined.
 
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TolHydra

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They found a nice gameplay option but removed it partly due to a huge abstraction problem, like every other thing that relates to those stupid three points. I'd argue that It's not necessarily the balancing that killed the concentrate dev or pillage capital, but the needless abstractions that don't allow these mechanics to be anything more than magical buttons.

Imperator (and I imagine MEIOU) does this better merely by having a population system already in place.

If they made it so that, extra infrastructure in your cities were needed to support more people and you had to at least make sure that they were all fed somehow, afterward no one would, and no one that plays Imperator (or even Civilization or Stellaris), bats an eye when you make your capital city a ridiculous pre-industrial metropole (or a planet-sized monstrosity). they're each a fun challenge, and they do require at least a minimum amount of thought rather than pressing buttons to magically make it so instantly. Also, neatly, in Imperator's case, the whole game is centered around a city that had gotten a bit too large for the era to begin with.

What the hell is pillage capital even supposed to represent then? We all first make assumptions about what a province development cap ought to have been historically, then we look at 250+ dev provinces and get weirded out because nothing in the game tells us either what do those numbers mean IRL, nor was it that difficult to achieve for the player, as we don't even get explanations on how does such a large capital is supposed to even support itself.

I honestly don't see that many complaints about too much development in CK3 either. At least it grows somewhat organically. Leviathan's 'steal development' buttons were just unfortunately the worst of all worlds.
 
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