Piety (and possible bug)

[unmerged(8762)]

In the demo, I barely created the Kingdom of Bohemia (~400g, 200 piety), by sending about 8 or 9 "Indulgence" requests to the Pope, which he duly agreed to.

Q1. Is this the only way to manually increase your Piety? There's no strategic alternative like building more church holdings, etc.? I can't help thinking after the third Indulgence request the Pope would be like "C'mon Duke... even I know what's going on here...".

Q2. I get an option to increase piety by +25 and pay ~ 50g... or increase piety by +25 and pay ~ 80g. Now... call me fussy... but I'll go with the 50g. Is this message correct? Should the piety not be different for the the different expenses?

 

[Ampersand]

Looking through the relevant event file, it appears that your second question indicates a bug. The second option should be to refuse payment, but doesn't use the right effects. This is similar to the bug where when you forge a claim, both options deduct the same amount of prestige and gold, and that one was fixed. The same bug is probably causing both issues, so I'm going to assume this one is fixed for the full version as well.

 

[Nikolai]

Re: Q1: You get piety from granting titles to bishops IIRC, and also by giving land to the pope. Or you can, you know, crusade.

 

[siis]

In the demo, I barely created the Kingdom of Bohemia (~400g, 200 piety), by sending about 8 or 9 "Indulgence" requests to the Pope, which he duly agreed to.

Q1. Is this the only way to manually increase your Piety? There's no strategic alternative like building more church holdings, etc.? I can't help thinking after the third Indulgence request the Pope would be like "C'mon Duke... even I know what's going on here...".

If you give a son of you a bishopric you gain piety (+25 i think).
There are traits that increase monthly piety gain. I played as bohemia and had the trait "zealos", I got +1.65 piety / month. Hover with your mouse over your piety and it should list your gains.

 

[Fjoelsvider]

i believe your court chaplains third mission also triggers events that give piety. i know these events trigger, but right now im not sure if they were court chaplain related

 

[Diet of Worms]

I think it is +25 piety for creating a bishop (assigning a character to an unoccupied church barony), +100 for creating a prince-bishop (assigning the holder of a church barony a count title), and something ridiculous like +400 for making a prince-archbishop (duke title to holder of church barony).

It balances though, a prince-bishop gets a -30 wrong type of holding relations modifier with his liege, making it something of an ongoing challenge to get taxes from it on a regular basis going forward.

 

[Maginor]

You get 6400 piety from giving an emperor title to a bishop ^^. Only 800 for a kingdom title.

 

[Diet of Worms]

You get 6400 piety from giving an emperor title to a bishop ^^. Only 800 for a kingdom title.

LOL! Do you know what the titles are called?

 

[Maginor]

LOL! Do you know what the titles are called?

It's just Emperor-bishop and King-bishop for christians. For muslims it's Caliph. For pagans it is Hierophant.

 

[Diet of Worms]

Oh... I'd hoped for something a little bit more.. exalted, I guess.

 

[unmerged(8762)]

Thanks guys, those options all make sense.

If you give a son of you a bishopric you gain piety (+25 i think).

I'm still a bit confused about this in practice though (and I'll still use Bohemia as an example).

You start off as a Duchy, with your brother and others in counties. All of you control Baronies (castle is main holding).

There are Bishoprics as lesser parts of holdings, but they are held by independent vassals/bishops. How do I get rid of them and put my sons, etc. in their place? I know on the county screen you can find the current county holder and "Revoke" the titles for the castles (the main holding), but I don't know how to do this for Bishoprics? It's probably embarrassingly simple.

 

[Alerias]

It's just Emperor-bishop and King-bishop for christians. For muslims it's Caliph. For pagans it is Hierophant.

.....

Alerias has gained the Ambition: Become Hierophant of Hibernia.

 

[Alerias]

Thanks guys, those options all make sense.



I'm still a bit confused about this in practice though (and I'll still use Bohemia as an example).

You start off as a Duchy, with your brother and others in counties. All of you control Baronies (castle is main holding).

There are Bishoprics as lesser parts of holdings, but they are held by independent vassals/bishops. How do I get rid of them and put my sons, etc. in their place? I know on the county screen you can find the current county holder and "Revoke" the titles for the castles (the main holding), but I don't know how to do this for Bishoprics? It's probably embarrassingly simple.

You dont need to give your sons bishoprics per se really. To gain piety all you need to do is give any landed titles to a priest character. Sure you can make your sons into priests for this purpose, but inviting a holy man to court and giving him a county or whatever will give piety. Make sure he likes you because if he doesnt his revenue will go to the Pope.

 

[Diet of Worms]

You dont need to give your sons bishoprics per se really. To gain piety all you need to do is give any landed titles to a priest character. Sure you can make your sons into priests for this purpose, but inviting a holy man to court and giving him a county or whatever will give piety. Make sure he likes you because if he doesnt his revenue will go to the Pope.

Question: have you actually tested whether a 'holy man' generated courtier becomes a prince-bishop when given a county? I haven't, but as far as I'm aware the only thing that makes them 'holy' is their theological education. I'm sure I've given counties to courtiers with that education before, and they were just normal counts.

What I thought was that you had to give someone a church barony to make him a bishop, and then subsequent titles would be ecclesiastical ones, and the difference between the two types of generated courtiers was mainly whether you wanted to buy them with gold or piety.

There are Bishoprics as lesser parts of holdings, but they are held by independent vassals/bishops. How do I get rid of them and put my sons, etc. in their place? I know on the county screen you can find the current county holder and "Revoke" the titles for the castles (the main holding), but I don't know how to do this for Bishoprics? It's probably embarrassingly simple.

You can revoke bishop titles, you do it through the character diplomacy screen. Doubt that is a good way to gain piety though If you conquer pagans you get to populate all the baronies I believe, including the bishoprics. Or you can build new bishoprics - I'd be surprised if building bishoprics didn't give you piety as well.

But really the main way to get piety quickly is to give count titles to bishops, same as CK1. But with the church mechanics in CK2 this will weaken your realm (due to difficulty in collecting taxes) over the long term - something that definitely wasn't the case in CK1.

 

[Diet of Worms]

Oh and as for king and emperor level bishops, I'd like to propose the terms: Priest-King, and God-Emperor

 

[unmerged(8762)]

You can revoke bishop titles, you do it through the character diplomacy screen. Doubt that is a good way to gain piety though If you conquer pagans you get to populate all the baronies I believe, including the bishoprics. Or you can build new bishoprics - I'd be surprised if building bishoprics didn't give you piety as well.

Ah, cool, will have a search for that, thanks! I wonder if you invade an (excommunicated?) realm whether you get the bishoprics as part of invasions as well. I seem to recall invasions in LPs where the player was frantically handing off all his baronies to reduce the demesne limit.

But really the main way to get piety quickly is to give count titles to bishops, same as CK1. But with the church mechanics in CK2 this will weaken your realm (due to difficulty in collecting taxes) over the long term - something that definitely wasn't the case in CK1.

Looks like I have a lot to play with, thanks to you both!

(and hehe, your "God-Emperor" comment got me fantasizing about a DUNE mod for CK2 with all the houses on Arrakis)

 

[Ruwaard]

I think it is +25 piety for creating a bishop (assigning a character to an unoccupied church barony), +100 for creating a prince-bishop (assigning the holder of a church barony a count title), and something ridiculous like +400 for making a prince-archbishop (duke title to holder of church barony).

It balances though, a prince-bishop gets a -30 wrong type of holding relations modifier with his liege, making it something of an ongoing challenge to get taxes from it on a regular basis going forward.

In my Bohemia demo game, not every creation of a prince-bishop resulted in 100 piety, at least that was what the information showed. It showed that making bishop X prince-bishop of A gives you +100 and +25 opinion, whereas making bishop Y prince-bishop of B gives you +25 opinion.