PI patching strategy and the Steam/GG divide

[c92nichj]

Well in a way it makes business sense as I(an many others of the more diehard PI fans) probably will need to buy the game twice; once for my preorder on GG(which I bought there because the history of bad steam support for PI games) and once on steam when betapatches comes out.

 

[Sute]{h]

I've been thinking about where to purchase CK2 for a while. I used to buy everything at GamersGate, but the new Steam-friendly attitude might attract me to Steam.

I have two main concerns about Steam:

1 Multiplayer. Multiplayer games takes a long time, and patching during a multiplayer game can screw things up. Sure you can disable auto-patching, but if one of the 10+ players forgets this, it will be hell to correct it.
2 Modding. I do a lot of modding myself, and the auto-patching Steam might overwrite some of my edited files. Sure I can use a moddir, but some Paradox games (Rome) had trouble with loading some files from the moddir. I don't know how this is solved in CK2.

Both of these issue have actually resulted in me have several different copies of EU3 installed. One vanilla, one for multiplayer and one for modding. That way I'm 100% sure that alterations to one will not affect the other. As far as I know, this can't be done with Steam.

 

[Wezqu]

1 Multiplayer. Multiplayer games takes a long time, and patching during a multiplayer game can screw things up. Sure you can disable auto-patching, but if one of the 10+ players forgets this, it will be hell to correct it.

You can copy the whole game folder to another location and play there without it needing Steam at all. So you can have the copy of the old version even if your main game on steam updates.

2 Modding. I do a lot of modding myself, and the auto-patching Steam might overwrite some of my edited files. Sure I can use a moddir, but some Paradox games (Rome) had trouble with loading some files from the moddir. I don't know how this is solved in CK2.

I think they still have the mod directory but as I said on the first part you can copy the game to another location and use the mod files on it and it will work.

Both of these issue have actually resulted in me have several different copies of EU3 installed. One vanilla, one for multiplayer and one for modding. That way I'm 100% sure that alterations to one will not affect the other. As far as I know, this can't be done with Steam.

It can be done with almost all the games on Steam. Only games that are not able to do it with are those that require steam to be on when you play. CKII is not one of these games. I think none of the Paradox games on Steam are like that either. Eu3 for example runs without Steam even being on and same goes with CKII.

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

How so? You're screwed because you don't get beta patches, which we may not even do at all? That seems to be the only difference so far. Also, beta patches on Steam isn't new information, this just seems to have been the first time you have noticed it.

Also, if you are so loyal, why don't you want to switch to our new preferred method? Are you sure you're not just conservative?

As i said i would have switched if i knew even if you didnt hide the beta-patching thing so good. Already now i had to search the forums massively to get concrete words: "Beta-patching will be on Steam only" I found it from johan hidden in a totally unrealted thread now. That there are still coming up a lot of questions about that beta-patching thing and that one of the guys her ejust said he will even buy a Steam copy over his GG one now proves you definately screwed up communicating this. Or did you actually end up this evil to be happy having forced customers into double purchases ? ;-)
If there had been clear communication i wouldnt have been a dickhead and bought Steam version because i prefer having beta-patches of the little issues i have with Steam. I am conservative if that means i use a service that worked perfectly for me so far over one that can cause little trouble, but if you cause me more disadvantages using my old methog i am even ready to follow... IF I JUST KNEW. You know i have little life and are on the forums a lot still its damn hard to find concrete infos about that Steam patching thing. You screwed that up . Fullstop. I will get a great game on Gamersgate at release and hope for some official patches in the future. If not i get the discounted version on Steam, where i will buy your games at discount in the future too if you are begging so badly for it. And now get back to work, no need discussing this over and over again , i finally found out there will be no beta patches for Gamersgate, and ihope you maybe try to make things like this more clear in the future. Gamersgate preorder has been out forever it seems and we are still discussing this as it isnt wasnt stated in a locked thread or something clearly, and you see the topic comes up again and again.

And yes i switch to new method immediately , so you will refund me my money spent on gamersgate and give me the Steam version. Awesome . :-D Ohh you mean with my money...well...isnt it enough you already get the interest from my first purchase? Seriously i am not that much into being non conservative. :-D

 

[Darkrenown]

Betas on Steam has been all over the forum. Sorry if you missed it though. I wouldn't say it's a major feature we sell different version on though.

You could always ask GG if you can cancel your pre-order, it's really nothing to do with us.

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

Just make sure important things like this arent all over the forum but easy to find. because its not only me who missed it. its not the end of the world, but a nice sticky would have spared a lot of guys a lot of trouble. Its a major change in patching policy after all and i always assumed you go the new way via Steam but still would provide the regular beta patch like you did so far in other games. was just joking with the switch 8even if it would have been nice). As i said i am expecting to get an awesome game on Gamersgate , i learned my lessons for next time and if everything fails i can still buy a Steam version at a discount later...wait i wont get beta-patches then either because i didnt preorder...man this really needs to be explained properly once and for all and not be hidden in various threads throughout the forum.

 

[unmerged(319241)]

probably a stupid question, but will I still get preorder bonus on GG or steam when I order it on the 6th of february?

 

[siis]

probably a stupid question, but will I still get preorder bonus on GG or steam when I order it on the 6th of february?

Let's hope it's on steam on the 6th and we don't have to wait after the 7th and miss the pre order bonus :|

 

[Saulot]

I have fair number of games on Steam. I have all my Paradox games on GamersGate. I will buy this game on GamersGate for that reason. I am one of those fans who almost never used beta patches, except in cases like CK/DV where it was the only patch later on. As long as Paradox does not leave us on the hook with a beta patch, I don't care about not getting them. We will see how the new policy turns out - hopefully it works out like they intend.

 

[Orinsul]

so with steam, to get the beta patch thats in a new folder? so does it have the download the whole game all-over again just to download the beta patch? that you then cant reinstall without downloading it all all over again? that just seems needless complicated and wasteful.

probably a stupid question, but will I still get preorder bonus on GG or steam when I order it on the 6th of february?

If youre willing to risk it, maybe youll have a power cut that day or get the time zones wrong or be unexpectedly elected mayor and have to run off doing stuff. I mean the whole point of pre-ordering is getting it sorted out ahead of time so you dont have to worry and rush on the day.

Let's hope it's on steam on the 6th and we don't have to wait after the 7th and miss the pre order bonus :|

Its been more or less said that steam will have the preorder bonuses if for some reason they dont allow orders until after the game comes out theyll probably call them first week order bonuses. If youre seriously concerned out missing out then theres GG but i wouldnt be worried as lots of people have said steam will be getting them too.

 

[s1234567890m]

In steam it wil have a second installation of the game, it downloads the entire game again

 

[Gogog]

In steam it wil have a second installation of the game, it downloads the entire game again

With New Vegas and Skyrim I have been forced to embrace steam. My country has limited bandwidth so steam has given me serious headaches at times. Like many American online services It seems to work well as long as you have uninterupted speedy access to the internet.

However if the above is true then I will not be getting CK2 on steam (I will get it assuming the first week reviews are good, same policy as HOI3 and Vicky2 which I never ended up getting) Downloading twice is idiotic and a waste of bandwidth. Could we get it confirmed whether this is the case?

 

[Snaake]

You could just pause the 2nd installation's download until you have the first one done + a good connection, etc. whatever other conditions you would like?

 

[Orinsul]

You could just pause the 2nd installation's download until you have the first one done + a good connection, etc. whatever other conditions you would like?

Thats still downloading it twice, twice as much bandwidth. Not everyone has the same conditions, so not everyone has the same solution im sure that works for some of you but i cant imagine ever finding it preferable.
Thats why im sticking with GG, you download it once and can reinstall it anytime you like without having to redownload anything, you can keep all the patches in a folder somewhere and install them at your leisure without having to redownload anything or be connected or anything. Its all controllable and under your control.
I would serious advise anyone who has to pay-per-minute or pay-per-bandwidth for their internet to get the GG version even though its a digital download. As with CK the digital-retail rule is reversed when it comes to that.

 

[Snaake]

You really pay based on the amount of data sent/received? :O

Also, Steam doesn't force you to install games, does it? (Doesn't for me, I have several games I've bought but haven't yet even downloaded/installed.) I assume you could just set it never to install the other copy, if you don't want to. Dunno if installing patches manually would work. But basically, if there are 2 versions, one normal and one for betapatches, you can effectively join us GG-orderers by setting the beta-patch one not to install, and just relying on the tested patches?

Granted you don't get an installer as such, but my guess is the GG installer will also download files while it's installing, so it's not like that would be different either (I'm not 100% sure on this of course).

 

[Orinsul]

Yes the whole world isnt exactly the same, for roughly half of it there are either limits on what can be downloaded or additional charges for use. But thats not the point.

But if the only reason for picking Steam over GG was to get the beta patches [what this thread is about], that you have to redownload the whole game to get the beta patches would be a deciding factor.
So if someone is looking at this thread to decide which to follow its good to have important stuff like out plain to see. Getting one version for beta patches isnt a gain if the way it gets them will be heavily inconvenient for you or impossible, in which case itd be better just to get GG and potentially miss out on the betas.

What about standard, not beta-patches, does it just get the patch or download the things not changed too? As presumably itd already have all the files there so it wouldnt have to but i think its still better to check and ask so them as need to know can know before putting their money down either side.

 

[s1234567890m]

With New Vegas and Skyrim I have been forced to embrace steam. My country has limited bandwidth so steam has given me serious headaches at times. Like many American online services It seems to work well as long as you have uninterupted speedy access to the internet.

However if the above is true then I will not be getting CK2 on steam (I will get it assuming the first week reviews are good, same policy as HOI3 and Vicky2 which I never ended up getting) Downloading twice is idiotic and a waste of bandwidth. Could we get it confirmed whether this is the case?

It has been confirmed by johan a few time.
The second DL may share files, similar to the half life games,
The second DL (the beta version) only downloads if you hit install just like the main game.
I dont see why you wouldnt just download the CK2 beta instead of the main game

 

[Sir Garnet]

The second DL may share files, similar to the half life games,

If they share files, that suggests there is a single set of physical files some of which are shared files will be used by both the beta and non-beta versions, rather than there being two installations created by Steam with some files in each one are duplicates of the other since not changed between the standard and beta release (while other files exist in two versions, one standard, one beta). Is this what you mean?

The implications for applying mods and creating new directories with copies of the game installation would seem to differ.

 

[s1234567890m]

If they share files, that suggests there is a single set of physical files some of which are shared files will be used by both the beta and non-beta versions, rather than there being two installations created by Steam with some files in each one are duplicates of the other since not changed between the standard and beta release (while other files exist in two versions, one standard, one beta). Is this what you mean?

The implications for applying mods and creating new directories with copies of the game installation would seem to differ.

When i say share i mean they copy the ones already downloaded

 

[Sir Garnet]

When i say share i mean they copy the ones already downloaded

Blindingly fast on the response you are!

But they're changing their patching policy. They're no longer going to keep a patch in beta status for months on end, the games would be updated frequently, and they've even stated here that they're not so sure they'll even do beta patches for Crusader Kings 2.

In the normal nature of things, I'd expect Paradox's level of support effort will be highest for a few months early post-release and decline over time to a much lower (but significant, if Paradox performs to past standard) level as the months and years roll by (I'd expect for the copies of the game I expect to buy to see use for years). It is probable that the intervals between updates will lengthen, particularly between the standard patches.

There is also the concern someone previously expressed that even standard patch updates on a secondary version may lag those on the favored version (e.g., due to personnel time constraints), easily leading to periods of mismatch among players playing different versions.

Such a discrepancy, if it arose, is a multiplayer problem, and an impediment for mod development and use for anyone using a laggard version. Differences of a day or two are annoying and can be disrupting, those of a week, or month, or more could be aggravating. This will be an issue for a minority of players who get involved with mods or multiplayer or would receive some practical benefit from the latest version.

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P.S. Remaining unanswered by anyone that I can identify as offiical is my question whether a GG installation on one machine can be beta updated by copying files from a Steam beta installation on the other. This is a technical question. However, if the Steam license will allow me to use beta versions while the GG license will not, technical feasibility is irrelevant since use of beta on GG would be impermissible.