PI patching strategy and the Steam/GG divide

[Powerslave]

If we do beta patches for a game, we want the largest group of people getting it, while still being convenient for us to quickly distribute it.

For beta patches, we also want to make sure everyone installs it correctly.

Since 85+% of you guys buy our games on Steam, and the 5% who still buy box gets a steam wrapper, it makes most sense to make a steam beta.



Then again, I'm not sure using beta patches is worth it if we want to patch regularly.

So what you are saying is that Steam will get better patch support (beta or not)? I still haven't preordered the game since I am confused over wich version will get the best patch support. So far earlier PI inhouse games have had much better patch support using non steam versions. I guess that will change now.

Personally i don't care where I buy the game as long as I get the best patch support as possible. You guys should be more clear where the customers will get the best patch support.

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

Ok , if you say so, i check Gamersgate and Steam about daily and never saw Gamersgate match those Steam offers, otherwise i wouldnt have Steam games which i have. In the end all was said, Paradox are going their way, if i like it or not. Just promising things for preorder than giving people who preordered throught the channels that allow it at the moment less service is misleading the customer in my opinion. And i also dont see what problem it would be to upload frequent patches to the forums would be , it looks like its really just policy to force people onto Steam by penalizing other ways of buying. In the end again, it is as it is i hate it and will try to adjust as good as i can. Personally i just went from being a fan of Paradox to being a fan of their games. But i know they wont care shit and rightly so this time. :-D

 

[ussdefiant]

Query: Is it possible to input the serial key that'd presumably come with a GG purchase into Steam to activate CK2 on there?

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

So what you are saying is that Steam will get better patch support (beta or not)? I still haven't preordered the game since I am confused over witch version will get the best patch support. So far earlier PI inhouse games has have much better patch support using non steam versions. I guess that will change now.

Personally i don't care where I buy the game as long as I get the best patch support as possible. You guys should be more clear where the customers will get the best patch support.

Yes get Steam or you are screwed, maybe there should be a disclaimer for this somewhere , i think its rather important isnt it?

 

[s1234567890m]

Query: Is it possible to input the serial key that'd presumably come with a GG purchase into Steam to activate CK2 on there?

no, GG version is steam free

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

I can just go on actual data. And I watch pre-orders and day #1 sales primarily.... And thats were GG is the strongest, as a core of forum people prefer them.. And thats still a small fraction compared to Steam.

Yes and thats exactly what i wanted to say , you screw your most loyal customers.

 

[s1234567890m]

Yes and thats exactly what i wanted to say , you screw your most loyal customers.

How?

 

[unmerged(187565)]

How?

Because this community is full of GG fanboys and Steam haters. I personally don't mind this change, since I have most of my games on Steam anyway and my GG account is only for Paradox' games.

 

[Sult]

You are telling us gamersgate sales are not even 5% of overall sales when everyone seemed to be perfectly happy with gamersgate and lots of guys prefer it over Steam. Sorry cant really believe that, only thing this could be is maybe becuase of those hugely discounted packs on Steam, so basically everyone preferring Steam is a self fulfilling prophecy the way its forced down our throat at the moment.

As Johan said, it's 85% of revenue, not 85% of sales. If by going by your argument by an extreme, that people only bought Paradox games from Steam while they were discounted (let's say a -50% discount), would mean the customer base that primarily uses Steam would be larger than 85% of the total customer base, around 91%. They are reaching a lot more customers through Steam than they do on the forums, because let's face it, the average gamer doesn't care about the official game forums unless they have a specific game issue, and once they resolve that, they're basically gone again. That doesn't mean that Paradox's only focus should be towards Steam, but if they want the opinion of something (like whether some change they're making with the next patch will break the game), the sample size of Steam users is better than the sample size of forum users.

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

Exactly, the long time customers do prefer Gamersgate indeed a lot, so they are hit by this decision the most. And it hink this is sad. But the only thing that really counts realistically is they could have told us we have to buy on Steam to get full access to all good things before selling the Gamersgate version alot to their most loyal customers. It would have been even less work than providing beta-patches on the forums which isnt much effort either. I think most of the guys ordering on gamersgate assumed they have the special beta versions too, if this wasnt explicitely cummonicated from the beginning it at least was damn misleading. I prefer Gamersgate over Steam sure, but if this would have been clear from the beginning i would have decided to get in on Steam and even have "gone with times". I just didnt know and so didnt most of the Gamersgate buyers i guess.

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

As Johan said, it's 85% of revenue, not 85% of sales. If by going by your argument by an extreme, that people only bought Paradox games from Steam while they were discounted (let's say a -50% discount), would mean the customer base that primarily uses Steam would be larger than 85% of the total customer base, around 91%. They are reaching a lot more customers through Steam than they do on the forums, because let's face it, the average gamer doesn't care about the official game forums unless they have a specific game issue, and once they resolve that, they're basically gone again. That doesn't mean that Paradox's only focus should be towards Steam, but if they want the opinion of something (like whether some change they're making with the next patch will break the game), the sample size of Steam users is better than the sample size of forum users.

Yes i agree totally i didnt say they should abondon Steam because i dont like i i said they should provide similar support to others version , or be cruel and totally honest and just go StEAm totally. I think the way it went was worst of both worlds.

 

[Arko]

as regular patches are on both platforms I'll be happy with that. I don't really care about beta patches.

 

[Pyriel]

as regular patches are on both platforms I'll be happy with that. I don't really care about beta patches.

This

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

I wouldnt mind to much either if there werent rather large times between official patches in paradox games so far and their main strenght always was to provide beta patches in between. Also if judging by the past tells anything (well everything is different now so it probably wont) the late support of the game was always nearly ONLY through Beta patches. But with this development i wouldnt count on long time support too much anyway .

 

[Sult]

I wouldnt mind to much either if there werent rather large times between official patches in paradox games so far and their main strenght always was to provide beta patches in between. Also if judging by the past tells anything (well everything is different now so it probably wont) the late support of the game was always nearly ONLY through Beta patches. But with this development i wouldnt count on long time support too much anyway .

But they're changing their patching policy. They're no longer going to keep a patch in beta status for months on end, the games would be updated frequently, and they've even stated here that they're not so sure they'll even do beta patches for Crusader Kings 2. And even if they do, the beta patches probably won't be the thing that absolutely fixes your game until the next official patch comes out, but rather a thing that they're uncertain is going to break the game unless it's tested by a good sample size.

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

I know but it was damn hard to find that out and it isnt clearly communicated today even.

 

[Zer00]

as regular patches are on both platforms I'll be happy with that. I don't really care about beta patches.

I'd agree in principle but the fact oif the matter is that PI often will take many months (or year(s) in the case of Rome) between patches. Beta patches are released often enough for most of their 'main' games. Annoying bugs and issues get quashed faster. I don't think I'm alone in saying that without the beta patches HoI3 and Vicky II would have exasperated their fanbases to a critical degree. Modders can do only so much about outstanding issues and often can't do that much about performance issues or crashes.

Besides the fact that as a customer you get value for your purchase in the way of bug fixes and the odd addition to gameplay, another important aspect of beta patches is the feedback. Suggestions made by people in the forums while playing the beta patches sometimes trickled back to Paradox. This is one of the reasons I love PI, in fact. So if I can't get beta patches then I, or others like me, can't really participate to improve the game like that. We can't very well give technical feedback on crashes and other issues either if we don't have the latest build either. With the very cautious approach PI has had in releasing 'full' patches in the past few years (understandably due to budgets) this can mean that you may be waiting a very long time indeed before being able to get your hands on the latest version.

I can see why PI will be focusing on steam as a platform and understand that they only seek to be efficient with their resources. All the same, I would ask them to reconsider their exclusivity. The fact of the matter is that they are supporting two different distribution services. This is a conscious decision made by the developers. They should, therefore, give the same level of service and support to both sets of customers. If they wanted they could have stuck with one model and forced their own system on everyone. Yet they didn't. This isn't so much an argument against/for steam (or any other distribution service for that matter) as it is one about treating your customers fairly. It's been around ten months since the last Vicky II patch. Imagine if a certain range of customers could not have access to all the reworking done to the game (read: improvements) since then while others could. Yeah, theoretically it won't be that long of a time between patches but it's really a leap of faith at this moment. It'd be nice to at least have the consolation of access for this game or any other future game, no matter how they choose to distribute it.

I don't expect my argument will sway Johan and co. if they've decided to maximize resources in the name of efficiency. Still, I felt that it needed to be said. I've already bought CKII but depending on how post-launch support works out it may be one of my last launch PI purchases. That would be the logical thing to do as a consumer looking to be most efficient with his spending money

 

[tobier]

Hasn't it always been the case that you can get beta patches from the support forums (in a nice zip or rar format)? I don't see the problem here...

 

[Muskeato]

It's been known for quite awhile. You just had to know where to look.

Hasn't it always been the case that you can get beta patches from the support forums (in a nice zip or rar format)? I don't see the problem here...

That will no longer be the case. Hence the minor uproar.

 

[Darkrenown]

Yes and thats exactly what i wanted to say , you screw your most loyal customers.

How so? You're screwed because you don't get beta patches, which we may not even do at all? That seems to be the only difference so far. Also, beta patches on Steam isn't new information, this just seems to have been the first time you have noticed it.

Also, if you are so loyal, why don't you want to switch to our new preferred method? Are you sure you're not just conservative?