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voleurinconnu

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First off, all this looks incredible, and I can't wait to see it in a playable form!
Secondly I haven't seen too terribly much detail on Florida other than a few mentions of a Duchy of Orlando, and some merchant republic barbarian types to the south, though a lot of those mentions were from quite some time ago so I'm not too sure how representative those were of the current ideas for there. If you'd like some ideas for that region, I've got a few although it doesn't seem to be the current focus, and for all I know you all already have that area all fleshed out. If it isn't too much trouble could I see a summary of what you've got going on there about now?
Anyways, if you lot need any help on this, I suppose I could be of some assistance.
 

pieGEEK

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Calian-
Orthodox- (Calian) Pacifican Ditto
Revolutionary Heresy- Millennial The influences of old New Age thought in a Gnostic manner calling from freedom from the caste and .
Reactionary Heresy- Restorationist The call to re-establish the church's supremacy over secular rulers and restore the faith to it proper place.
Archheresy/Syncratic- Relic The adherence to the Great Seer of the Past and the wisdom it provides without the false priests interference.

Characteristics-

WIP, Feel fee to comment and share your thoughts.
 
Last edited:

Orinsul

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First off, all this looks incredible, and I can't wait to see it in a playable form!
Secondly I haven't seen too terribly much detail on Florida other than a few mentions of a Duchy of Orlando, and some merchant republic barbarian types to the south, though a lot of those mentions were from quite some time ago so I'm not too sure how representative those were of the current ideas for there. If you'd like some ideas for that region, I've got a few although it doesn't seem to be the current focus, and for all I know you all already have that area all fleshed out. If it isn't too much trouble could I see a summary of what you've got going on there about now?
Anyways, if you lot need any help on this, I suppose I could be of some assistance.

Thanks for the interest.
What werve got for floridia is swamp barbarians, divided into two groups, independant counts in the south being the swamp tribes and the 'duchy' of Orlando in the north which is ruled by the descendants of exiled lords who fled there during the conquest or in later civil wars or just to escape the consequences of crimes but have since gone native.

The Floridians might have two cultures or just be politically divided at the start and will either be in a culture/religion group all of their own or in the same group as the Caribbeans [on account of long connections through the caribbean trade routes but really to give them a potential allies to hold off invaders from the north.]

For their society theyre probably settled hunting/fishing tribes who run around naked and believe that the world is an alligator or crocodile [from florida being long and thin, surrounded by water, alittle submerged/swampy itself and that animal being the most dangerous there.] although some of the northern ones would be jerusalemite heretics for their trait, probably heretics enough to believe in the tribal stories as well.

From what i remember a few of its provinces are named and numbered already as well but not all of them.

---------

As to pieGEEK please remember that there is no continuity, modern society was utterly destroyed and everything developed from nothing. If Mormons have a president, why? Is the word mentioned as what a leader is called in their holy book, do they have a new holy book?, where does the word come from, why hasnt it drifted/corrupted in the passing centuries.
The same with the Calians, why would new age thought from a destroyed society two thousand years earlier still exist or matter?
Id suggest that Mormons dont have a president if only because they'll likely end up sharing a border with the Presidency.

As to sunsetter, it shouldnt be in the Calian group but the reformed by event religion for the Plainsmen. A heresy happens randomly through the heretic events.
And as to the Bordal i'll say again, the Plainsmen are the original plainsmen. Thats where they came from, the plains. thats why theyre called plainsmen. Why the obsession with having original plainsmen when just plainsmen or random plains tribe would do?

As to the west coast cultures what matters getting languages and naming the provinces.

For Calian i'd suggest something along the lines of the revolutionaries attempting to break or loosen the caste and create social mobility maybe even allow non-servant to be allowed to be taught to read or etc.
Reactionaries oppose non-servant political power, think that too many things have been let in the hands of secular rulers when it should have been left to the servants alone.
The arch-heresy [or possibily second archheresy] not in place from the game opening but is created when a working 'God' is found from a Calian only outcome of the universal artefact found event chain and so now you have a society ruled by people who pretend to be speaking in behalf of a machine god and then an actual working machine god is found in some buried ruin which would disagree with many of the things theyve said and so would plant the seeds of social collapse and civil war.
Another arch-heresy probably isnt needed, but there wont be one in play for the start so maybe a heresy which believes that the Servants are a relic of the past who have no place in modern society and just seeks to oust them and put everything under the authority of the secular lord.
And the nationalist heresy could well be realm but translated and be a consequence of the generation that grew up during the anti-pope crises as the game opens which would have planted the idea that every realm have its own 'pope' as during the crises that worked fine and there were benefits to the secular ruler to not share one with his enemies.

The Mormon heresies sound alright but the tech rate bonus might be problematic, just not having the tech rate malus of their tribal neighbours would be benefit enough.

Anyway, none of that really matters at this point so no worries.
 

pieGEEK

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The Mormons have the First Presidency in memory of their history, that Joseph Smith founded the institution way back in the day.

The Bordal are not in Plainsman do to their history of being in that area for countless centuries.They are not of the Plains Civ and are of another faith created by their old traditions and the people who assimilated them in.

Calian and Mormon are still WIPs. But they are going in the right direction.

How about the Tribals?
 
Last edited:

Orinsul

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Wikipedia seems to suggest that the book of mormon states that the best form of government is democracy led by elected judges or by a righteous king. The name the book where it the citation links is Chief Judge.
I havent read the book of mormon but seeing as though it was pretending to have been written centuries before their were presidents its unlikely it mentions them by name. The only record of joseph smith would be the tiny amount thats about him in the book.
If theyre fundamentalist and their fundamentalism is how the memory and language was retained and if their society and government was built around the book of mormon then thats where the high title would come form. If they have a memory of a president, why? what gives them an uncorrupted memory of that word? Is there a second book of mormon telling of the ash times from a mormon perspective that details the last president or what gives them that memory.
 

pieGEEK

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1. Well the Mormons in the game are fundamentalist leaning do to fringe communities surviving and taking the rest of the mainline Mormons with them. Well the righteous king part is in as line of the re-founder of the Mormon faith, with a mandate of heaven concept, it should be called something other than the First Presidency.
2. Then the system should lean on an elective monarchy standpoint with some republic shades, of the judges who police and lead settlement a la the old testament.
3. The Book of Ash should be the name of the 3rd Book of the Mormons after the Book of Mormon and the Mormon Bible.
4. The unity of church and state in the same position is stressed. The King would be the head of the faith, with judges as his vassals. Odd but does look compelling.

Note-Updated Mormons
 

Orinsul

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There can only be one vassal per-realm. Bishops would work for elected, or just have the judgeship have turned hereditary during the development of the modern society.
If you could edit previous posts to add in afterthoughts it'd keep the pages from turning over as fast.

Ive just added the calian brainstorming from acouple posts above into the provences doc's groups.

Wikipedia has a 'List of Book of Mormon people' page which would seem a good place to find names from for the culture.

For Thunderbird the word is Kwa̱nkwa̱nxwa̱lige
which is a bit long, so i'll look for something that means the Tradition or the Faith or the Society or the People or something as the name. For the Reformed religion ive gone with 'Na̱mg̱is which means Those-Who-Are-One-When-They-Come-Together as that fits PERFECTLY for the organised civilisation.

Kwa̱nxwa̱lał is the Thunderbird Dancer so that could be cool for the religion name.
 
Last edited:

rbc1989

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Wait do you guys need a list of names from the Book of Mormon or you looking for common names of Mormon? I can provide both.


Male names(from Book of Mormon)
Mormon (Yes this is name of actual person in the book.)
Moroni
Mahroni
Jared
Jacob
Joseph
Amaleki
Korihor
Nephi
Lehi
Omni
Mosiah
Enos
Jarom
Emer
Shule
Shiblom
Com
Corom
Hearthom
Kish
Lib
Levi
Aaron
Alma
Helaman
Laman
Lemuel
Samuel
Coriamtumr
Mulek
Shiz
Seth
Ether
Jacom
Orihah
Gilgah
Mahah
Kib
Abinadi
Noah
Benjamin
Zeniff
Limhi
Gideon
Teancum
Morianton
Ammon
Amalakiah
Shiblon
Zoram
I can provide a lot more if you guys are interested.
 
Last edited:

Orinsul

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Wait do you guys need a list of names from the Book of Mormon or you looking for common names of Mormon? I can provide both.


Male names(from Book of Mormon)
Mormon (Yes this is name of actual person in the book.)
Moroni
Mahroni
Jared
Jacob
Joseph
Amaleki
Korihor
Nephi
Lehi
Omni
Mosiah
Enos
Jarom
Emer
Shule
Shiblom
Com
Corom
Hearthom
Kish
Lib
Levi
Aaron
Alma
Helaman
Laman
Lemuel
Samuel
Coriamtumr
Mulek
Shiz
Seth
Ether
Jacom
Orihah
Gilgah
Mahah
Kib
Abinadi
Noah
Benjamin
Zeniff
Limhi
Gideon
Teancum
Morianton
Ammon
Amalakiah
Shiblon
Zoram
I can provide a lot more if you guys are interested.

Thanks but no worries theres a wikipedia page 'List of Book of Mormon people' that looks to be pretty complete

Its the Kwakwaka'wakw names that seem impossible to find a list of
So far ive found four. so probably im just going to have to make them up.
 

cpteveros

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The Mormon leader/caliph could simply be called "Prophet" because it is a synonym and I believe a title for the President of the Mormon Church. I would recommend that the Mormons be a theocracy because that would probably suit them the best, with bishops as the landed titles.
 

pieGEEK

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Too big and vague bu that could be a declaration later on for a character with high piety and learning with a great Mormon realm on conquest...just like the Zorasters/

The judgeships are the fusion of military and religious authortiy, tightly held by hereditary lineages and appointed servants. So then a Catholic mechanic of Free Investiture, the Mormons are more of a weird faith than I thought.
 

pieGEEK

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New mormon civ info

This is going to be insane but an interesting idea on Mormon government, civilization, and society.
My previous post is now being redone, and will be done again in the future
WIP

Own any holding type except cities.
Mormons eschew Normal title-ships since their rulers own any position they choose, making sets of titles irrelevant mostly.
Heresies stand as fine but will get more work.

Barons- Since they only own one holding, the previous does not apply and they follow regular CK2 mechanics for themselves.
Captain-Garrison (Feudal)
Bishop- Ward (Religious)
Postmaster-Post (City)

The rest of the titles get confusing as they are one. The rationale is that the Mormon state was established by more fundamentalist leaning Mormons who took on the rest of the survivors of their faith. These institution are partly democratic but are a parallel and similar to the Lazarines. The leaders of the Mormon church organized themselves as a missionary state where offices are intertwined with the secular ruler ship being a church position and vice versa, where the title of church ruler ship coming from a body known as the Apostles. Prophet title is a duchy and is in vassalage to the highest ranking Mormon.

Now since temple holdings and castle holdings are basically the same in, list now starting at county level-
Judge- Judgeship
High Judge- High Judgeship
King-Kingdom
King of Kings-Dominion

For Mormon Republics, county up-
Ward-District
High Ward- Republic
Ward President- Domain
President of Presidents- Realm

Side note-There is a Mormon group on forums with one dude, is it advisable to ask him for information?
As a Catholic I feel we are handling our faith in a way somewhat accurate in design to or traditions but corrupted to our settings necessity.

The Curia mod is the indirect inspiration of the structure, all Mormon rulers become priests as a part of their education process, they then rise as they practice and can become an apostle and eventually head of the faith. The Apostles are a council of 12 + the Prophet who are high leaders of the Mormon faith, high learning characters or High Prestige and Piety are likely to rise to the positions.

Characteristics of the Mormon civ-:
Family-
Polygamy- Fundies enforced this as an example to the past traditions, structured after the CK2 Muslims.
Penalty for Unbusied Sons-Your sons must be doing something with themselves or lest you suffer prestige loss- Basicall your suns must be sent to do more than idle at yourcourt or jail because they were idling at your court. This means they must fight in war and take part in other activities.
Religious Head-
Not Vassalizble - The position floats around honestly, it does not go to anyone in particular.
Caliphate-like - It is a feudal position.
Has authority- Defrock members of the faith for grave offences, divorce, enforces doctrine, and calls Evangelizations.
Investiture-Receives a some money independently has a say in duke and up ranked titles.
Succession-
Republics-Normal
Succession- Mandatory Elective for Duke and up positions under count and down its open succession.
The positions are elected by the members of the faith and those who are governed.
Prophet- 5 Vote
Previous Holder- Vote Corresponds to Title (4 Emperor to 1 Count)
Presiding Bishop- 1 Vote
Apostles if any attached by Court or in Realm- 1 Vote or 1 Additional if holding landed titles already
Direct Vassals- Ranging from 1 Baron to 4 for a High Judge.

Wars-
Unique "Conquest" CB - Punitive Expedition (basically a conquest CB)
Holy Wars
Crusades/Jihad- Evangelization

Other Notes-
Must convert any province that is not of their faith, causes a tiny prestige penalty that adds up.
Slight across the board tech bonus of .1 .

The High Judges are meant to solve problems and organize and area more than rule.

Council-
Chancellor- Explorer
Marshal- Commander
Steward- Treasurer
Spymaster- Inspector
Court Chaplain- Presiding Bishop

Thoughts? It isn't even half done.
 

pieGEEK

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Maybe alittle on the complicated side but good ideas. Is there a mechanic in the game for penalties for unconverted provinces? I've not previously heard of that.

Well, the Mormons are going to be something very weird and interesting, but very unique and not any pale copy. There going to need events where in their education they become part of various offices. And an actual church with offices and ranks.

Prophet- The Head of the Faith and of the Apostles
Most Senior becomes Prophet
Apostles- 12 Holiest, Wisest, and Most Powerful Men.
Elected by the Apostles and Prophet based on stat values and rank, also opinion.

Every kingdom receives a Patriarch decided by the Prophet and the Apostles. The Patriarch is handled in the Orthodox way, but with power only over the other bishops ceremonially. (Because managing churches is complicated.

There are two priesthoods, one of the high order of Melchizedek lies the high functions of the church, and in the Aaronic lies the local. The issues are its complex, you need to rise past the the positions, which is a constant battle for pious Mormons to rank higher. You can only reach titles at certain ages and rejuirements and you fire an event when reaching the requirements, where you get confirmed upward. Those titles have benefits and jobs.

I am divorcing temple holdings from feudal rulers, that causes issues, then there will be another line of titles then for those positions. Making rank a requirement and other events is too cumbersome for CK2 to handle and a player to deal with.

Religious Titles (Count up)-
Sovereign Bishop- Soverign Wardship
Sovereign Patriarch- Sovereign Patriarchy
And no titles above.
Note- All landed religious titles are appointed by the Prophet.

Still Not Done. Will continue update and revision.
 

Orinsul

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So open elective but a maintenance event to down-grade education traits if the title held by the temple character isnt high enough to justify the education trait and keep mormon lords only being allowed priestly education and only being permitted the good traits if they have the character flag representing them having that rank.
Probably one event could do all that.
 

Zhetone

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Talk of Mormons makes me wonder if a Sayyid-like trait claiming descent from Joseph Smith himself would be viable.
Of course, they wouldn't actually be his descendants; how would they know?
It could come from someone who makes the original claim and his descendants, though.
Just an idea I'm tossing out, of course, but it's something, right?

If I remember correctly, one part of the Mormon church claims the leadership is basically hereditary from Smith.
 

Orinsul

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Talk of Mormons makes me wonder if a Sayyid-like trait claiming descent from Joseph Smith himself would be viable.
Of course, they wouldn't actually be his descendants; how would they know?
It could come from someone who makes the original claim and his descendants, though.
Just an idea I'm tossing out, of course, but it's something, right?

If I remember correctly, one part of the Mormon church claims the leadership is basically hereditary from Smith.

By the sound of it mormons will already have ten times more quirks then provinces. And thats thousands of years difference. Claiming descent from some hero of the recent mormon history. Maybe the man who was lead by angels to discover the ruins of salt-lake city or a general who was matyred when negotitation a peace treaty with the barbarians or something, or much easier, the descendant of the guy who formed the king tier title, as all thatd require is history set up.
The Sayyid trait with its hardcoded mirza is being used on the east coast for he descendants of the phoenix king.
 

cpteveros

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By the sound of it mormons will already have ten times more quirks then provinces. And thats thousands of years difference. Claiming descent from some hero of the recent mormon history. Maybe the man who was lead by angels to discover the ruins of salt-lake city or a general who was matyred when negotitation a peace treaty with the barbarians or something, or much easier, the descendant of the guy who formed the king tier title, as all thatd require is history set up.
The Sayyid trait with its hardcoded mirza is being used on the east coast for he descendants of the phoenix king.

I agree. I think they are an interesting religion, but they shouldn't receive anymore attention than the other religions and cultures.