Phoenix Fire: The American Post Apocolyptic Mod

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I'm just wondering how the dynasties work. For instance will we have a problem with only 1000 dynasty names for each culture when you can have dynasties named after baronies. Because in that case you have the possibility for 6300 dynasty names right there (assuming we use all 7 baronies for each province). I bring this point up because you can have in vanilla the dynasties of Monmouth, de Monmouth, von Monmouth, bm Monmouth, etc all for the same place. Would we need to independently add in those dynasties for each culture or is there a shortcut that saves us from adding in 6300 dynasty names for each culture? I'm just concerned that if we implement cultures like this we might run out of dynastic room.

I believe the engine automatically generates the "from" dynasties. That's why in the culture file there is "from_dynasty_prefix".

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Sorry to the person who did the awesome job with the full table of names, but I've updated the Hurric names because I found that I had far fewer than the rest of you... but I did this before I saw your sheet or I would have just added directly to it.

 

[Orinsul]

Sorry to the person who did the awesome job with the full table of names, but I've updated the Hurric names because I found that I had far fewer than the rest of you... but I did this before I saw your sheet or I would have just added directly to it.

Thats what its there for, i just copied yours out of the other list but its there to be added to so if anyone wants to add in their culture just drop another column in. And rows for variants/translations of names not used yet.

Formulaic dynasties are generated by the game on the creation of new characters and then stored in the save file. So we only need make dynasties for historical characters and then a handful of interesting dynasties for each culture to prevent all post-start dynasties being 'of province's

 

[Arcaul]

When it comes to heresies how widespread should they be? Right now I only have the Rock as being a heretical branch of the North should I have more or less of the other branches of faith?

Edit: Right now I`m corrupting English names into Laurencois and it raises the question are we going to have any melting pot cultures like English in vanilla? Right now I`m going to avoid all the biblical names if I can just because they are obviously for the Alabamans and therefore not really appropriate for the Quebecois and Laurencois.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I have updated the names page and included a female version as well. I strongly suggest that "unique" names still based on modern names be included in the list. It takes some time to move everything and keep things alphabetical but you never know when someone might go, "O! I forgot about that name!" and want to include one too. Happened to me a few times.

I also feel we should remove those that constitute just doubles, like Danny and Nick, which consisted of the same names and spellings as Daniel and Nicholas. It might cause the game to make a Nickae II be followed by Nickae II.

 

[Arcaul]

Laurencois male names are now done and set in stone. Here they are:

	lauroncois = {
		graphical_culture = frankishgfx

		color = { 0.3 0.5 0.7 }
		male_names = {
			Aleandre_Alexander Alexis_Alexis Andréser_Andrew Antonin_Anthony Armand_Armand Arnaud_Arnold Artur_Arthur Augustin_Austin Azhéke 			Bastien_Sebastien Briane_Bryan Bén_Benjamin Caméron_Cameron Cedric_Cedric Charles-Antonin_Charles-Antoine Charles_Charles 					Cleophas_Cleophas Clément_Clement Colme_Malcolm Cöl_Cole Cönn_Connor Damien_Damien David_David Denise_Denis Dominique_Dominique 				Duc_Duke Dylan_Dylan Elbiq Elliot_Elliot Eloi_Eloi Emile_Emile Emmanuelle_Emmanuel Ephraim_Ephraim Ergon Estienne Etane_Ethan 					Eugène_Owen Evan_Evan Finéas_Phineas François_François Frederic Frenkla_Franklin Fâramonde_Faramond Félicien_Felix 						Gabriel_Gabriel Gaspardé_Casper Gaston_Gaston Geoffroi_Geoffrey Geroges_Georgia Gidéon_Gideon Guillaume_William Henri_Henry 					Honore Howe_Howard Hugo_Hugo Hugues_Hugo Huntére_Hunter Jacob_Jacob Jacques_Jacob Jean_John Jehan_John Josué_Joshua 						Jourdain_Jordan Jules_Jules Julien_Julien Juste_Justin Jâsone_Jason Jérémie_Jeremy Jöel_Joel Kevàn_Kevan Laurent_Laurent 					Loik_Loik Louis_Louis Louka_Louka Loïc Luc_Luke Ludovic_Ludovic Luka_Lucas Lutér_Luther Léo_Léo Léon_Léon Malik_Malik Maraulf 					Marcellin_Mark Marquis_Earl Matheo_Matthew Mathias_Mathias Mathieu_Matthew Mathis_Mathias Matteo_Matthew Matthias_Matthew 					Maxime_Maxime Maximilien_Max Maël_Maël Michel_Michael Mikael_Michael Netan_Nathan Nicolas_Nicholas Noah_Noah Olivier_Oliver 					Philippe_Phil Piers_Peter Raoul_Ralph Raphael_Raphael Raymond_Ray Remoi Richard_Richard Robert_Robert Romain_Roman Sachée_Alex 					Samuel_Samuel Siffroid Simon_Simon Sinclairée_Sinclair Sylvain_Silas Thierry_Terry Thomas_Thomas Théo_Theo Timothée_Tim 					Tobee_Toby Tristan_Tristan Tyle_Tyler Ulric Vincent_Vincent Xavière_Xavier Yann_Evan Yannick_Evan Zacharie_Zachary Zephir 					Âdam_Adam Édouard_Edward Élie_Elijah Élie_Elijah Éric_Eric Éron_Aaron Éryan_Ryan Éshere_Asher Étienne_Steve Îsaac_Isaac 
		}
		female_names = {
			Adele_Adele Alexandra_Alexandra Alexia_Alexia Alice_Alice Alicia_Alice Amelia_Amelia Anais_Anais Annabelle_Annabelle 						Ariane_Ariane Audrey_Audrey Aurelie_Aurelie Beatrice_Beatrice Camille_Camillie Charlie_Charlie Charlotte_Charlotte Chloë_Chloe 					Clara_Clara Coralie_Coralie Delphine_Delphine Elizabeth_Elizabeth Elodie_Elodie Emma_Emma Emy_Emy Eva_Eva Eve_Eve 						Florence_Florence Gabrielle_Gabrielle Jade_Jade Jasmine_Jasmine Julianne_Julianne Juliette_Juliette Justine_Justine 						Laurence_Laurence Laurie_Lauren Lea_Leigh Leonie_Leonie Livia_Livia Maelie_Maelie Maeva_Maeva Magalie_Magalie Maika_Maika 					Marianne_Marianne Mathilde_Mathilda Maude_Maude Megan_Megan Megane_Megan Melodie_Melodie Mia_Mia Naomie_Naomi Noemie_Naomi 					Oceane_Oceane Olivia_Olivia Raphaelle_Raphaelle Rosalie_Rosalie Rose_Rose Sarah_Sarah Sofia_Sofia Sophia_Sophia Sophie_Sophia 					Victoria_Victoria Zoë_Zoe
		}
		from_dynasty_prefix = "de"
		grammar_transform = french

		modifier = default_culture_modifier
	}

Ignore the female names for now as I still need to work on them. There are something like 139 male names. Posting here screws up the format but I have the .txt file if anyone needs it.

 

[ulrichomega]

I'm about halfway through the Campestre culture names (~80 for each gender) and dynasties (105). I'm planning on extending the culture up through Central America, so I figure they need proportionally more names, as well. I say halfway through because I've exhausted my Kogi list of words that I've been namifying, but there are no Spanish names, yet, nor any dynastic names that could overlap. I've also still got to go back through and re-add accent marks, which I forgot to do for the first half of the work I did.

 

[Orinsul]

I have updated the names page and included a female version as well. I strongly suggest that "unique" names still based on modern names be included in the list. It takes some time to move everything and keep things alphabetical but you never know when someone might go, "O! I forgot about that name!" and want to include one too. Happened to me a few times.

I also feel we should remove those that constitute just doubles, like Danny and Nick, which consisted of the same names and spellings as Daniel and Nicholas. It might cause the game to make a Nickae II be followed by Nickae II.

Good Work.
For doubles, if theyre _daniel'd then i think itll work, so that some cultures can consider the two the same name but another culture considers them separate. Im not sure if one culture having a name linked to two names links its other variants together in other cultures though so itll depend on checking.
The game has names which are in only one culture linked to the same _original and it works ok at numbering them right but i dont think ive checked two names linked to different originals. But itd be easy to check.

One thing ive been thinking is, should we get rid of the Indianan Confederacy? As with the Hurric plan there seems less room for them, and instead have ordinary plains duke/count states bordering the Hurrics and make the confederacy a Titular title, createable by any plains state that conquers it to become king tier and link that to a decision allowing them to sign the compact and become congressional so its a potential for something that can happen in the game rather than something that happened a couple years before the start. As it was planned out before there was any concept for the rust belt and it just seems the mod has outgrown it so making it a titular potential would be the way to go.

I'll add the girl names ive got to the new list. Thanks for making it.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Depending on what everyone is doing we should probably make a political/cultural/religious map of the whole game map. Just to catch everyone up. I think the plains men are still doable south of the Hurric peoples and caught between Oklahoma, Texas and the Western Expanse. I understand Texas already has some plans, what if we redefine "Texas" to refer to Republic of Texas lands and use the rest for the core lands of the Plains Raiders? We can rename it the Oklahoma Confederacy, or the Nebraska Confederacy. I hate to suggest making the map any bigger... but what if we include the more of Oklahoma, the Dakotas, Nebraska and Kansas? That might solve some of the issues. What is the total province count?

 

[Orinsul]

Not dropping the plainsmen just the Indianan Confederacy, which was on land now allocated to the Hurrics, with either expanding the Ozarks north to have a border with the Hurrics or put in some independent plainsmens counts there rather than try and fit a third thrid-wave kingdom inbetween the Ozarks State and the Hurrics.


With names, two names with the same _name count as the same, but does anyone know the effect of two names with the same name_ but different commons?

i.e.
A_B and C_B in one title make A I and C II
But i dont know what happens if B_A and B_C have. Obviously its the same name so the game should say B I then B II but i dont know if theres an example of it in the base game so im not sure if it works it. It ought to though
And what happens with other cultures?

If Eve and Eva and separate names in one culture but combined in other, will the game number Eve and Eva as though they were the same under all cultures or just the cultures where they are linked?

Edit: Ill ask in the quick questions

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Probably for the best. If anything we can... you know... set up a test and find out.

 

[Orinsul]

this is a quick map, knocked up without any checking or referencing and on a laptop without a mouse of the starting set up just with none of the borders in the right place, general idea only. Alabama and the Carolines owning georgia and fighting over it, the union in civil war between ohio on one side and virginia and skylands on the other.

The Confederacy was going to be a thrid plainsman kingdom between the Ozarks and the Lakes but with the Hurrics now i dont think theres room or really need for them so what does everyone think about dropping them or making them as an early game invasion event dependent on a decision available for independent plainsmen counts in the region or something like that.

 

[ulrichomega]

Took me a few days to do this one, but mostly because I'm basing the names off of amerindian names as well. Also, I've got 115 dynastic names for these guys as well.

campestre = {
	
		graphical_culture = muslimgfx
	
		color = { 1.0 0.5 0.25 }
		male_name = {
			Adráyne_Adrian Agustyín_Augustine Ahíkwa Ahuíneka-taná Akín-dúe Aldauhuíku Alekandro_Alexander Aldúna-háte Aldúna-múlyi Aldúna-sánk Álvaro_Alvaro Ankyel_Angel Antón_Anton Arturo_Arthur
			Bautista_Batista Ben-jamín_Benjamín Búnalyue Bunkuányu_Bunkuányu 
			Carloz_Carlos 
			Diego_Diego Dúe-sángui Duginávi Dzibúndziza 
			Éibi-ci Elnau-yang Emiliano_Emile Eskeman_Esteban
			Fraksisko_Francisco
			Gabryl_Gabriel Guacanaoma Guingala Gwiawimundwa 
			Hakungéna Hánkua Huangkuan Húviexan 
			Jerónimo_Jerome Jesús_Jesús Joaquín_Joachím Jorge_George Jozé_José
			Kábalmal-dúe Kággaba Kakene Kálta-búci Kámuke Kaniel_Daniel Kan-zalyintána Kasindúkua Kaxsáta Kaxtasínma Kaxyúno Kekan Kimáku Kjuán_Juan Kristóbal_Christopher Kuisbángui Kuishgámake Kukuméizu Kulca Kunca-vitau 
			Lasací Leonardo_Leonard Luis_Louis
			Makú Málkwa Mántuel_Manuel Martín_Martin Mateo_Mathias Matíazá_Mathias Makzimil_Max Micolás_Nicholas Miguel_Miguel Muán Mugaxa Mugí Mulkuá Mulkuëxe Multóma Multsáma-dúe Mulyigába-kaxi Mulyigába-geina Múmu Munséisi Musushí 
			Nakuíza Náni Naoma Néan-biró Neuldang Ne-yumang Noábi-dúe Nugikuí Nugikuíthe Nuhué Nuhúna-dúe Nuhúnash Nurldauzíva Nutsálue Nyëxka 
			Ozkar_Oscar 
			Peli Pedro_Pedro Punkusa 
			Rodrigo_Roderick
			Sacíta Sai-caka Sai-tana Salalu Salue Samuël_Samuel Sangui Sankalda Santiazo_Santiago Sebastán_Sebastián Séi Seizánkwa Séizua Sekuí-buci Sekuí-tási Sekuizbúchi Seokúkui Sësáke Sháxalda-dúe Sintána Sivaxáli Ssái-dúe Stáxalda-dúe Súkindúe Sunkána Surldabéy 
			Tarbi Thiago_Jacob Tomás_Thomas Túbi Tukuashíza 
			Véikve Vizkente_Vincent
			Zaku Zakwa Zakwanci Zalyin-tána Zantána
		}
		
		female_names = {
			Ahúnyika Aldúna Atéima Atsësi 
			Bunkuánye_Bunkuányu 
			Carmen_Carmen 
			Daniela_Daniela Dashíbia Degauká 
			Emilya_Emily Enduksáma Enkuáne 
			Florencia_Florence
			Gaulcovang Géina Guxsénse 
			Ha-ité Hángéina Haxtoxé Hélyi Hindukánni Hinduksáma Hisánna Huangkema 
			Isakella_Isabella 
			Juliekta_Juliette
			Kabriela_Gabriela Kaize Kaldauká Kálta Kamilla_Camille Kánexang Kaxa Kangékua Kangusina Kankuí Karakacú Kaxsintána Kenyazé Keresa_Teresa Kuíska Kúkui Kogtóma Kuíbuldu Kulchalyía Kunchavita 
			Leticia 
			Makasue Malká-yubang Malkwa-yang Mamaróngo Mameyumang María_María Marianya_Mariana Meyízu Micaela_Michelle Mihai-paca Mita-uéya Moketa Mul Mulatáui Muli Multúbia Múndzi Munsá Munzi Mutsiua 
			Nábia Nabobá Neb-siza Neb-skiz Neb-tasi Ní-nulang Nivan Nurldauzia Nyëxka 
			Sáka Saldan Salomé_Salomé Samanta_Samantha Sámexan Sámmeya Sara_Sara Sáungëlda Saxkalda Sedúntsi Sëgí Seihukúkui Séimake Séinulang Séivaxe Sekalálimue Sëlda Sëlda-bauku Sëldasu-kve Sësa Sesakalda Sëssáxein Seynekun Shí Shishíbia Shimarúa Shubuldúe Sikuáxalda Sínsi Sivalda Sívalidsínue Sivulang Skóko Sofía_Sofía Subutuíla Súgi Súgi-géina 
			Takina Tambos Teiku Téizua Tusúlu 
			Uba-séshi Uká Ulumsíza Úlyi 
			Valentyina_Valentina Vitaueya 
			Yubang Yunmang 
			Zaleria_Valeria Zalyintána
		}
		
		from_dynasty_prefix = "ke "
		
		male_patronym = "bunkua"
		female_patronym = "bundzi"
		prefix = no # The patronym is added as a suffix
		
		# Chance of male children being named after their paternal or maternal grandfather, or their father. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grf_name_chance = 80
		mat_grf_name_chance = 0
		father_name_chance = 0
		
		# Chance of female children being named after their paternal or maternal grandmother, or their mother. Sum must not exceed 100.
		pat_grm_name_chance = 10
		mat_grm_name_chance = 50
		mother_name_chance = 0
		
		modifier = default_culture_modifier
	}

 

[Orinsul]

Astounding work! thanks!!

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Given that it seems to be that religions are going to be represented through traits I am going to reform exactly how things work religiously in the Hurrian regions. Religions will be put into the traits and the political issues to the religion. This should make the Hurrians a bit more homogeneous and hopefully scarier should they unite. I'll work on this tonight after work and errands.

 

[Orinsul]

Given that it seems to be that religions are going to be represented through traits I am going to reform exactly how things work religiously in the Hurrian regions. Religions will be put into the traits and the political issues to the religion. This should make the Hurrians a bit more homogeneous and hopefully scarier should they unite. I'll work on this tonight after work and errands.

Making the Hurrians one religion, divided through traits like moslems were in CK would mean not being able to control or influence where the heresies appear. The question is, if a hurric from one lake moved to near another would he still follow the traditions and practices of the old lake and stand out from the people around him, or would he shift to seeing the nearest lake/river as the most holy and fit in with his neighbours, as if theres no major differences then itd be better as one, but if you want the divisions to be more than private faith with the factions as traits but a major part of how the society runs and how characters interact with eachother than its better represented as it is with the different religions.
Also how insulated you want the tribes to be with each other, as dividing the religion group also encourages the AI in who it marries.
For the Hurrics which are a society of public religion id leave the differences as religions, and have traits that match them for people of that faith outside of that society but its entirely your thing so up to you.

So you cant post links to other internet sites here? As ive found a pretty good site with lists of names and variants of names which is a pretty good source for looking at how names are shaped and get shaped by different people to get ideas as to different ways to shift them. It's called Kate Monk's Onomastikon which ought to be easy enough to search for.

How much native language should we have survive into the mexican languages?

And should the Plainsmen above mexico and on the plateau have a different culture that those in the transmissippi? Or just have the plainsmen names alien enough that they stand apart to both equally?

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

The division between the Hurric "faiths" are not as deep as those that divide Roman Catholics from Greek Orthodoxites; they aren't even as deep as the divisions between some of the Protestant faiths. Ties to a particular body of water is not because of the belief that the water is question is more holy; but rather because it is a body of water. Peoples group together over which is easiest to reach and feel a certain connection to it. But I feel that it will be very hard for Hurrics to survive if they are not homogenous like their neighbors. If they are homogenous, neighbors will come to protect them in Holy Wars, and they cannot use Holy Wars to expand over one another. Traits can then define relation modifiers in a more controlled manner (I was thinking only -10 or so for different bodies rather than the larger -30 or -100 for Zealous characters).

 

[Orinsul]

The division between the Hurric "faiths" are not as deep as those that divide Roman Catholics from Greek Orthodoxites; they aren't even as deep as the divisions between some of the Protestant faiths. Ties to a particular body of water is not because of the belief that the water is question is more holy; but rather because it is a body of water. Peoples group together over which is easiest to reach and feel a certain connection to it. But I feel that it will be very hard for Hurrics to survive if they are not homogenous like their neighbors. If they are homogenous, neighbors will come to protect them in Holy Wars, and they cannot use Holy Wars to expand over one another. Traits can then define relation modifiers in a more controlled manner (I was thinking only -10 or so for different bodies rather than the larger -30 or -100 for Zealous characters).

Good point about the co-operation, i hadnt thought of that.

 

[ulrichomega]

The situation in Mexico is confusing, and since I need to understand it in order to write the history for Latin America, can I ask for clarification in general? The Latin American history seems very blank, meaning I can do pretty much whatever I want, in general. However, the history of Mexico heavily influences it, and is nothing but a confusing mess to me. The presence of 2 Mexican Empires, and 2 sets of crusades, both at completely unspecified places and times could be much better explained.

From what I can tell, the Presidency is more of a northern Empire, and extended northward and southward. At some point, the Empire of Mexico broke away, and engaged in a series of crusades trying to bring the light of Mexican Catholicism to the people of the south. From that point, the timeline is the most confusing part. Which crusades take place in the timeframe of the mod? Which ones take place beforehand?

For now, I'm going to focus on the history of Latin America proper. I'm looking at a Maracaiboan Papal States being founded around 200, and the Central American states being more conquered than conquerers.

 

[Orinsul]

The Presidency has coastal texas, the rio grande and sierra madre mountains, the Crusader Empire has Mexico City down to Guatemala. The Presidency being old [as old as the Union] and falling apart and the Crusader Empire being brand new [first generation] and conquering.
So the First Crusade ends at or just before the start of the game, and later crusades are in game when the Emperor calling crusades on the barbarians in central america or the Presidency to the North. Both presidency and crusader empire playing the Byzantine role of the empire up against the enemy.

So when the game opens the Crusader Empire is under its first or second Emperor and all its lords are of latin cultures [with a melting pot later on to make a new culture to represent the descendants of latin ruled mexicans and latin rulers assimilated into their subjects culture] and probably distant cousins or younger brothers or landed lords and barons in south america.
The Crusade was the Latin invasion of Mexico from the Provisionals.

The Crusade was the result of a mandate from the papalcy that gave the Crusaders absolute authority over their conquests. So the Crusader Catholicism/Latin Catholicism difference isnt two groups claiming to be the Church, but they are both one Church and the crusaders acknowledge the Pope in [Maracaiboa?] as the Universal Head of the Church but do not acknowledge his authority over the Crusader lands, where the Emperor through the mandate is religious authority over the crusaders.
So the difference is that of Gallicanism or Febronianism in modern Catholcism. There is one universal church, but within the nation its authority is secondary to the State. There is one Latin Church, but within the Crusader States and any lands established by the Crusaders authority rests in the hands of the Crusader bishops and the Emperor and the Pope and central church cannot order or alter the Church inside the crusader states without the Emperors consent as the Church in Mexico is a vassal of the Emperor first and part of the Church second.

As for south american history theres not much. The civilisation was founded off-map to the South but after the rich and powerful lands of Colombia-Venezuela were brought into the civilisation by conquest or conversion they became the heart of the civilisation eventually prompting the Papacy to move early enough before the start of the game that theres is no consideration of them ever going south again and where they are being seen as the centre of Latin Civilisation.
And that recently a long conflict against a heresy was fought and defeated, leading to a large number of soldiers standing about [prompting the crusade] and allowing for some of the houses to be new with counts with claims on their titles as the counts being the former dukes who had there titles stripped for supporting the other side or that sort of thing.
There was thought at one point that recently all of the Latins were united in a single empire that dissolved in the run up to the start of the game. But mostly its a blank slate at the moment. Just the vague brainstormed drafts on the first page.

Edit: its probably clearer just to read the spoiler boxes on it in the third post.

but basically, the History of Latins in Mexico only goes back one life time so you dont need to worry about it when thinking about the history for anywhere else.

Its Crusader Catholics of Latin Cultures ruling over marios and christos mexicans, the two heresies meaning the native society of mexico, provinces in mexico and barbarian provinces in central america and Provisional Brazosine and Mexicans ruling over provisional and christos and barbarian provinces in northern mexico.

The Crusade was the Latin conquest of mexico from the Presidency and the event that sparks of the Illuminatory Wars [Congressional Crusades] against the Latins and the Crusades [Crusader Crusades] against the Democratics so is the event that starts off the game, the great defeat of the Presidency at the hands of a largely unconsidered enemy being the defeat of the Byzantines at Manzikert at the hands of the Turks sparking the European Crusades.