Philosophies

[HolisticGod]

Niceta,

I agree that the masses had no more understanding of philosophy than they have now of theology. Doesn't mean they didn't identify with philosophical schools. We know now, as then, that the common mass of humanity will seek to identify with the ruling class in its fashions and beliefs.

And even if the majority had no connection to philosophical schools, so what? The ruling class did and the ruling class is more important, in this period, than the rest.

As for the omens, I'm starting to think they're actual invocations of the Gods, not appeals to mass superstition. If so, Paradox is crossing into arcade game territory, irrespective of our positions on religion, philosophy, etc.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

As for the omens, I'm starting to think they're actual invocations of the Gods, not appeals to mass superstition. If so, Paradox is crossing into arcade game territory, irrespective of our positions on religion, philosophy, etc.

Because we all know that omens never had any tangible effect on classical civilization.

 

[HolisticGod]

Tambour,

No, because we all know that the Gods never had any tangible affect on classical civilization.

It's one thing if a bad omen causes troops to lose morale or a population to have higher revolt risk. It's quite another if a failed appeal to Demeter causes crop failure or to Neptune causes storms.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

Tambour,

No, because we all know that the Gods never had any tangible affect on classical civilization.

But the omens do not simulate the effects of gods, they simulate the effects of omens.

It's one thing if a bad omen causes troops to lose morale or a population to have higher revolt risk. It's quite another if a failed appeal to Demeter causes crop failure or to Neptune causes storms.

It's not an "appeal to Demeter", it's an attempt to read an omen, and a failure means that the omen was a bad one. Like, say, a certain stellar constellation indicating a short and wet summer.

 

[HolisticGod]

Tambour,

Except that that's magic too. A constellation indicates a short and wet summer and the people respond in X fashion would simulate the effects of omens in a realistic way. A constellation indicates a short and wet summer and so the crops respond in X fashion simulates the effects of magic.

Omens aren't random events either. They're invoked to gain a benefit, just as Generals invoked them before campaigns. If all they do is impact morale, revolt risk, stability, etc., that's fine. I agree with you. If they cause crops to fail or prosper or storms to fill the sea, that's something else entirely.

 

[unmerged(84607)]

Tambour,

Except that that's magic too. A constellation indicates a short and wet summer and the people respond in X fashion would simulate the effects of omens in a realistic way. A constellation indicates a short and wet summer and so the crops respond in X fashion simulates the effects of magic.

Omens aren't random events either. They're invoked to gain a benefit, just as Generals invoked them before campaigns. If all they do is impact morale, revolt risk, stability, etc., that's fine. I agree with you. If they cause crops to fail or prosper or storms to fill the sea, that's something else entirely.

Or you interpret the Omen to indicate a short a wet summer and sow your wheat accordingly (plan for early harvest, single harvest etc), then it turns out you were wrong (which could be dependent on the priests abilities in predicting this as much as luck, they did cheat sometimes) and you don't get as much out of your crop as you expected...

I guess it remains to be seen whether the probability of success is a result of the "power" of a religion (which would be hard to motivate without superstition) or whether this merely impacts the effects.

I remain cautious towards the omens.