Pop growth is a hot topic right now and it made me think how the game on a whole works in a thematic level. So, here's those thoughts:
First of all, I'd like to know how y'all feel about what exactly means to be xenophile/xenophobe as well as authoritarian/egalitarian.
For me, I think it is the following: Authoritarians believe some are, for some reason, better or more worth it than others, while egalitarians think that every sentient being has the same dignity. Xenophiles embrace the weirdness of space, not only other races, but overall they are open to what is different while xenophobes are distrustful and afraid of what lies beyond the stars.
So here's how the quadrant works:
- Xenophile egalitarians believe that whatever lies out there should have its individuality embraced and that we are stronger when we welcome whatever lies out there into our fold.
- Xenophobe authoritarians believe themselves to be better than the rest, and what is different is not only scary, but worst, that it should either stay away or know its place, which is below. Hierarchy is defined by race.
- Xenophile authoritarians believe some are better than others, but that is not defined (only) by race, but by whatever other value that keeps the order. Now, this can translate itself in a lot of manners, because people in power might see (as they often do), that "keeping the order" is the same as "keeping ourselves in power" and so they might embrace what other races contribute with enthusiasm, keeping with the their xenophile ethics, but still not believe that they should have a shot at ruling. They are good servants, and that is to be appreciated. But if one decide they can also be good rulers, this does not break the ethics.
- Xenophobe egalitarians is where it gets weird to me, because one might see it as "separated, but equals" ethics; the belief that everyone has dignity, but that mixing races is not a good idea. As seen in real life, this usually don't work, as it is hard, albeit impossible, to keep people separated without restricting the rights of some, so the egalitarian xenophobe is restricting, at the very least, the right of immigration. Now, it's ok for a race to be contradictory, after all, the dialects must advance, comrades, but those are two weird ethics to mix; maybe it means "equality... for us", maybe it means that while in theory we believe that everyone has dignity, we also believe that this is a social construct and thus cultures that did not embraced it are a threat to the cohesion of society (they are waiting for good liberation wars to teach them freedom). Xenophobes egalitarians are meybe more genuinelly afraid of other spescies than they are hateful torwards them.
So, after all that, it comes to the following. How should empires deal with pop growth and immigration?
RIght now, the issue seems to be that the game tries to equalize the populations and so your founder spescies just stops growing. While this is bad news on a mechanical side (we usually create a race that helps us win the game and having less of them is a bad thing), is it a bad thing thematically?
Well, it depends.
For a xenophiles, either egalitarians, authoritarians or neither, I believe, this should simply be a non-issue. When you embark in this way of playing, you are open to not having control. The universe will provide and diversity is good. For the egalitarian, once they become citizens, others are, no longer, others and for the authoritarians, as long as people know their place (but this happens within the spescies, too), this is also not a problem. Embracing cultures *is* our culture, so as long as we stay xenophiles, every culture is welcome. And when you add xeno-compatibility, now really, there are no races, only individuals, with strenghts and weaknesses.
The clash of mechanics and themes here appear to be on a very fundamental level. While everyone is welcome, it should follow, naturally, that freedom would lead people to naturally find what is better for them, not necessarily, of course, for an individual from a strong spescies can still become a scietist, but generally speaking, they should feel at home on the mines. Also, obviously, they should feel at home where habitability is more favorable. The strenght of diversity is not turning away people good for the job, whatever that may be. So pop growth and specially immigration should reflect better what the planet is, what jobs are available, so the pieces fall in place. It is good that it is not perfect, as refugees fleeing from slavery and war are not choosers and individuals do not make optimal choices, but it should *make sense* overall, which I do not think it does right now.
The authoritarian, as well as various flavors of xenophobes, should have more control, one which was maybe lost for good on the transition from tiles to districts, there are mechanics right now to prevent or encourage pop growhts, as well as keeping certain spescies on certain stratas, but I can understand when a player feels that this is not enough. When having access to a wealth of diversity, it does wants, very specifically, *these* on the mines, *these* as farmers and *those* are scientists, with no wiggle room. Not workers or specialists, but on the absolute best place I, as the ruler, seem fit. The move from tiles to districts greatly improved the feel of xenophile and egalitarian empires imo (it needs only minor tweaks to weights so the overall picture is less of a mess), but the authoritarian and the xenophobe is rightly feeling that it had a control over its own population that now it simply does not. Is it just how the new system works and let's move on? Because it really feels, thematically, that the level of control that tiles used to have should still exist for those empires that treats its citizens as tools for the greater good (or for the good of the ruling class).
At last, there's also the question of immigration being a hot topic on politics nowadays, with plenty of people anxious about insane notions of "replacement" (as if starving refugees could replace the powerful and the wealthy). The fears of the real world doesn't translate well into stellaris because humans, unlike xenos, are not of different races. We can reproduce and mix and we do not having significant biological differences, but I can see, on the psychological level, after being bombarded with xenophobe political propaganda, one seeing its founder race "losing space" and reacting to it as a bad thing and I hope this very boring post should at least help put in perspective that it is only a bad thing if it does not fit thematically with what you are going for.
Some empires will be so open that the founder races, over time, will lose space, maybe the way the numbers are tweaked right now make it too fast, but for a lot of empires, even ones that are not xenophiles (but neither xenophobes), a wealth of cultures and spescies is to be expected and this has pros and cons mechanically (pros: someone out there is perfect for the job; cons: all the time you spent deciding traits is less relevant). Once xeno-compatibility comes into place, you really should forget the notion that a found race even exist, at best it is a historical curiosity, because with mixing biologically allowed, the "half-" spescies should start to prevail, as a matter of mathematical reality even ("pures" create "half-", but the other way around does not happen). Those screenshots showing a chaotic mess of "half-" spescies is how it is supposed to be if you decided to open the doors. Now, if you completed all the steps necessary to allow the galaxy into your planets, then thematically, things are functioning properly, this is only *bad* if your own personal values are determining it so.
In conclusion. Authoritarians dealing with diversity really lost control over how to fine-tune their own populations in the move from tiles to districts and I think that, I have no idea how, they should have it back, because it makes sense. But players that embark on the experience of allowing freedom, should expect the beautiful chaos that comes with it.
On a last note, there is the problem of the ascension paths. If you have 50 spescies on your planets, to modify all of them is a pain. To me this is more of an UI issue than anything. Just let us apply templates cross-spescies if we want. I'm sure that is not as simple as I am making it sound, but the problem here really is to make the same decision over and over for everyone. There should be a way to bypass the boring work and just let me do a catch-all template.
First of all, I'd like to know how y'all feel about what exactly means to be xenophile/xenophobe as well as authoritarian/egalitarian.
For me, I think it is the following: Authoritarians believe some are, for some reason, better or more worth it than others, while egalitarians think that every sentient being has the same dignity. Xenophiles embrace the weirdness of space, not only other races, but overall they are open to what is different while xenophobes are distrustful and afraid of what lies beyond the stars.
So here's how the quadrant works:
- Xenophile egalitarians believe that whatever lies out there should have its individuality embraced and that we are stronger when we welcome whatever lies out there into our fold.
- Xenophobe authoritarians believe themselves to be better than the rest, and what is different is not only scary, but worst, that it should either stay away or know its place, which is below. Hierarchy is defined by race.
- Xenophile authoritarians believe some are better than others, but that is not defined (only) by race, but by whatever other value that keeps the order. Now, this can translate itself in a lot of manners, because people in power might see (as they often do), that "keeping the order" is the same as "keeping ourselves in power" and so they might embrace what other races contribute with enthusiasm, keeping with the their xenophile ethics, but still not believe that they should have a shot at ruling. They are good servants, and that is to be appreciated. But if one decide they can also be good rulers, this does not break the ethics.
- Xenophobe egalitarians is where it gets weird to me, because one might see it as "separated, but equals" ethics; the belief that everyone has dignity, but that mixing races is not a good idea. As seen in real life, this usually don't work, as it is hard, albeit impossible, to keep people separated without restricting the rights of some, so the egalitarian xenophobe is restricting, at the very least, the right of immigration. Now, it's ok for a race to be contradictory, after all, the dialects must advance, comrades, but those are two weird ethics to mix; maybe it means "equality... for us", maybe it means that while in theory we believe that everyone has dignity, we also believe that this is a social construct and thus cultures that did not embraced it are a threat to the cohesion of society (they are waiting for good liberation wars to teach them freedom). Xenophobes egalitarians are meybe more genuinelly afraid of other spescies than they are hateful torwards them.
So, after all that, it comes to the following. How should empires deal with pop growth and immigration?
RIght now, the issue seems to be that the game tries to equalize the populations and so your founder spescies just stops growing. While this is bad news on a mechanical side (we usually create a race that helps us win the game and having less of them is a bad thing), is it a bad thing thematically?
Well, it depends.
For a xenophiles, either egalitarians, authoritarians or neither, I believe, this should simply be a non-issue. When you embark in this way of playing, you are open to not having control. The universe will provide and diversity is good. For the egalitarian, once they become citizens, others are, no longer, others and for the authoritarians, as long as people know their place (but this happens within the spescies, too), this is also not a problem. Embracing cultures *is* our culture, so as long as we stay xenophiles, every culture is welcome. And when you add xeno-compatibility, now really, there are no races, only individuals, with strenghts and weaknesses.
The clash of mechanics and themes here appear to be on a very fundamental level. While everyone is welcome, it should follow, naturally, that freedom would lead people to naturally find what is better for them, not necessarily, of course, for an individual from a strong spescies can still become a scietist, but generally speaking, they should feel at home on the mines. Also, obviously, they should feel at home where habitability is more favorable. The strenght of diversity is not turning away people good for the job, whatever that may be. So pop growth and specially immigration should reflect better what the planet is, what jobs are available, so the pieces fall in place. It is good that it is not perfect, as refugees fleeing from slavery and war are not choosers and individuals do not make optimal choices, but it should *make sense* overall, which I do not think it does right now.
The authoritarian, as well as various flavors of xenophobes, should have more control, one which was maybe lost for good on the transition from tiles to districts, there are mechanics right now to prevent or encourage pop growhts, as well as keeping certain spescies on certain stratas, but I can understand when a player feels that this is not enough. When having access to a wealth of diversity, it does wants, very specifically, *these* on the mines, *these* as farmers and *those* are scientists, with no wiggle room. Not workers or specialists, but on the absolute best place I, as the ruler, seem fit. The move from tiles to districts greatly improved the feel of xenophile and egalitarian empires imo (it needs only minor tweaks to weights so the overall picture is less of a mess), but the authoritarian and the xenophobe is rightly feeling that it had a control over its own population that now it simply does not. Is it just how the new system works and let's move on? Because it really feels, thematically, that the level of control that tiles used to have should still exist for those empires that treats its citizens as tools for the greater good (or for the good of the ruling class).
At last, there's also the question of immigration being a hot topic on politics nowadays, with plenty of people anxious about insane notions of "replacement" (as if starving refugees could replace the powerful and the wealthy). The fears of the real world doesn't translate well into stellaris because humans, unlike xenos, are not of different races. We can reproduce and mix and we do not having significant biological differences, but I can see, on the psychological level, after being bombarded with xenophobe political propaganda, one seeing its founder race "losing space" and reacting to it as a bad thing and I hope this very boring post should at least help put in perspective that it is only a bad thing if it does not fit thematically with what you are going for.
Some empires will be so open that the founder races, over time, will lose space, maybe the way the numbers are tweaked right now make it too fast, but for a lot of empires, even ones that are not xenophiles (but neither xenophobes), a wealth of cultures and spescies is to be expected and this has pros and cons mechanically (pros: someone out there is perfect for the job; cons: all the time you spent deciding traits is less relevant). Once xeno-compatibility comes into place, you really should forget the notion that a found race even exist, at best it is a historical curiosity, because with mixing biologically allowed, the "half-" spescies should start to prevail, as a matter of mathematical reality even ("pures" create "half-", but the other way around does not happen). Those screenshots showing a chaotic mess of "half-" spescies is how it is supposed to be if you decided to open the doors. Now, if you completed all the steps necessary to allow the galaxy into your planets, then thematically, things are functioning properly, this is only *bad* if your own personal values are determining it so.
In conclusion. Authoritarians dealing with diversity really lost control over how to fine-tune their own populations in the move from tiles to districts and I think that, I have no idea how, they should have it back, because it makes sense. But players that embark on the experience of allowing freedom, should expect the beautiful chaos that comes with it.
On a last note, there is the problem of the ascension paths. If you have 50 spescies on your planets, to modify all of them is a pain. To me this is more of an UI issue than anything. Just let us apply templates cross-spescies if we want. I'm sure that is not as simple as I am making it sound, but the problem here really is to make the same decision over and over for everyone. There should be a way to bypass the boring work and just let me do a catch-all template.