Phenotype Traits

[Strager]

One thing I think would really help differentiate species is to have differences between Phenotypes. I did a post on a more sophesticated phenotype idea and people seemed split into two camps: 1 that wants phenotypes to be different and one that ones to "imagine their species" however they like.

The system below is designed to appease both camps. Any race can have any trait, but it's likely that most of the AI species you come across will use their natural phenotype trait. All numbers are examples.

Each Phenotype (besides Humanoids) has a default "Phenotype" trait.

The trait can be removed for 1 trait point.

Another phenotype trait point can be added for another 1 trait point.

Humanoids start with no trait point and can either pick one (for a trait point) or simply choose an extra racial trait.

Late game gene-modification can allow for "special" phenotype that take the place of the species original.

Mammalians: Warm-Blooded: Habitibility +5%

Fungoids: Spores: Reproduces uses spores. Growth Rate +10%

Plantoids: Photosynthetic - Uses Energy instead of food. Uses more energy on worlds further from the sun and less on worlds closer to it.

Avians: Flocks - Birds naturally form flocks which improves military coordination and more developed social structure improves work flow. +1% Minerals +5% naval capacity.

Reptilian: Cold-Blooded: +10% habitability on their home climate. -10% habitability on all other worlds.

Muscoloid: Filter-Feeders: Gathers food from their environment as they go about their day. All tiles produce 1 food.

Anthropod: Exoskeltons: +10% health to all armies.

Future DLC that adds new phenotypes could than add things like:

Rockoids- Beings made of rock. Eats minerals instead of food. -5% growth rate.

Aquatics: Can colonize ocean worlds (A new planet type could take the place of the existing ocean world - more on that in another post) but can't colonize land worlds.

Gas-Dwellers: Can live on some kinds of gas giants but can't colonize regular worlds.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

God no.

This actually one of my biggest peeves- I absolutely do not want my choice of species portrait to dictate how I can play my species. Aesthetics should stay aesthetics, mechanics should stay mechanics. I actually want the AI to randomize which cityscapes and ship sets they use, too.

I have no problem with more unique Traits being added to the game- but they should NEVER be default because of what portrait you chose.

 

[Mcwynne]

How does shoehorning the species into generalized groups make them more different? Some of them aren't even true for earth species (flocks, filter feeders) Or true for species of other groups as well (flock again but still not general for any group, and warm/cold blooded). And no I don't have better suggestions, because there aren't any.

Also, for me the plantoids/fungoids are clearly more similar to what would be considered animals than anything else. But that's probably against the artists intent so I will not hold it as an argument here.

From a game-play point you also suddenly have to balance the portraits so that people don't start min-maxing them.

All of these could easily be worked into traits without people projecting stereotypes onto species solely base on appearance.

 

[The_Meme_Man]

Absolutely not. This doens't have much scientific backing, is bad gameplay and balance, and is not fun for roleplaying.

 

[aono]

I don't like it - it's too, well, fixed.

Mammalians: Warm-Blooded: Habitibility +5%

Why every mammalian should be warm-blooded, and why actually it should allow more Habitibility?

Fungoids: Spores: Reproduces uses spores. Growth Rate +10%

Why should spore reproduction of complex fungi-based form be more fast that any other reproduction form?

Photosynthetic - Uses Energy instead of food.

Why every plant should be photosynthetic?

Avians: Flocks - Birds naturally form flocks which improves military coordination and more developed social structure improves work flow. +1% Minerals +5% naval capacity.

Why every bird should be flock-based, and even if so, why flocks are more efficient that packs or, well, modern-management work teams?

Reptilian: Cold-Blooded: +10% habitability on their home climate. -10% habitability on all other worlds.

Same as about mammalian - why every reptile should be cold-blooded and why it should modify habitability?

Muscoloid: Filter-Feeders: Gathers food from their environment as they go about their day. All tiles produce 1 food.

Why every miscoloid should be stationary and live in high-nutrient environment? And even if they do, why tiles should produce bonus food?

Anthropod: Exoskeltons: +10% health to all armies.

Why exoskeleton should be so more defending?

 

[The_Meme_Man]

I'd give one point though to the fact that Mammalians kind of have to be warm blooded, as that is one of their defining traits (otherwise they get classified as Reptilian, since there are reptiles that had fur and gave birth to live young; pterasaurs come to mind).

Still though, it's a lame bonus, since warm-bloodedness is pretty overrated. A mammal can survive in a wider range of temperature, but they must eat more food than reptiles do. In fact, during the Permian extinction, cold-blooded reptiles had a huge edge over the warm-blooded therapsids and synapsids because they could survive on such little nutrients.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

I'd give one point though to the fact that Mammalians kind of have to be warm blooded, as that is one of their defining traits (otherwise they get classified as Reptilian, since there are reptiles that had fur and gave birth to live young; pterasaurs come to mind).

Still though, it's a lame bonus, since warm-bloodedness is pretty overrated. A mammal can survive in a wider range of temperature, but they must eat more food than reptiles do. In fact, during the Permian extinction, cold-blooded reptiles had a huge edge over the warm-blooded therapsids and synapsids because they could survive on such little nutrients.

The internal logic is still poor though, too- why would Mammalians specifically get the "Warm-Blooded" Trait when the equally warm-blooded Avians do not?

 

[The_Meme_Man]

The internal logic is still poor though, too- why would Mammalians specifically get the "Warm-Blooded" Trait when the equally warm-blooded Avians do not?

I know, it's a stupid notion, I just wanted to get my comment off my chest because it was an itching feeling that "Ok, yeah, I'd admit that literally all mammals have to be warm blooded", but there is no reason for a bonus when there are obviously reptiles and fish that can survive colder climates than some mammals and birds.

 

[Qoff]

I honestly think this would be a bad addition to the game, the phenotypes are what they are, just portraits, if you give them stats people will choose the same every single game.

 

[Strager]

The exact traits I gave were just examples. It would of course be up to Paradox to come up with their own traits and bonuses.

The main thing this is going for is that if you WANT to have a photosynthetic fungus, you CAN do that - and the AI might do just that. It just costs traits to do it. This way no one is locked into their phenotype but you still end up with the majority of fungi being spore-throwers.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

The exact traits I gave were just examples. It would of course be up to Paradox to come up with their own traits and bonuses.

The main thing this is going for is that if you WANT to have a photosynthetic fungus, you CAN do that - and the AI might do just that. It just costs traits to do it. This way no one is locked into their phenotype but you still end up with the majority of fungi being spore-throwers.

Then just add more traits.

No need to even suggest they be weighted to certain portraits.

 

[CiderMuffin]

This sounds like an awful idea. I don't want traits forced on me, also I find the whole "everyone but humans get one" as kinda stupid.

 

[Qoff]

I honestly think this would be a bad addition to the game, the phenotypes are what they are, just portraits, if you give them stats people will choose the same every single game.

BTW: If phenotypes would give traits humans should be obviously adaptative or very adaptative.

 

[StJimmyRocks92]

I'm in favor of phenotype traits but this would be a terrible implementation.

EDIT: Although, I do like most of the traits you came up with.

 

[aono]

BTW: If phenotypes would give traits humans should be obviously adaptative or very adaptative.

Actually humans by biological means aren't adaptative. You need just drop temperature at 20 degrees, and unprotected by shelter or clothes human will die.
Comparing with fungi taken as a whole... phhhht. Not worth mentioning.
Also I should notice that biologically humans are mammals. Humanoid is a shape.

 

[Derp]

The most I'd accept is random AI empires having weighted (not guaranteed) trait picks based on phenotype, with no impact at all on customs. No special traits, just stuff like... avians have a higher chance of Weak, mushrooms have a higher chance of Sedentary, etc.

 

[aono]

No special traits, just stuff like... avians have a higher chance of Weak, mushrooms have a higher chance of Sedentary, etc.

You're free to say I'm playing dumb again, but if we take avians as birds, they're not weak. Birds are actually very strong - try to catch and hold a raven who don't wants to be holded, and remember it's only 1-kg bird. Average domestic cat, for comparising, is weighted around 3-4 kg.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

The most I'd accept is random AI empires having weighted (not guaranteed) trait picks based on phenotype, with no impact at all on customs. No special traits, just stuff like... avians have a higher chance of Weak, mushrooms have a higher chance of Sedentary, etc.

Weighting any traits is bad, IMO. We need more variety, not less.

 

[Derp]

Weighting any traits is bad, IMO. We need more variety, not less.

Variety doesn't necessarily mean "everything is 100% random".
That's how it works right now and AI empires are hardly interesting.
I don't agree with the OP's idea but I'm not averse to a more nuanced and guided AI empire generation than the current system where the computer seemingly just picks random things out of a hat and throws them at the wall.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Variety doesn't necessarily mean "everything is 100% random".
That's how it works right now and AI empires are hardly interesting.
I don't agree with the OP's idea but I'm not averse to a more nuanced and guided AI empire generation than the current system where the computer seemingly just picks random things out of a hat and throws them at the wall.

The solution to that is more interesting/unique Traits and more interesting/unique AI Personalities, not to make AI's more similar.