Phase C is basically a free win for Axis

[Herr_Robert]

Only when playing Allies... after mid of phase B there is nearly no chance of coming back

Me personally feels like it should be the other way around... germans should be stronger at the start and slow down to phase C, because after the landing the allied troops could pump more and more troops onto the coasts and into tha harbours, while german troops stayed more or less the same... but i am not an expert, it's just how i feel about that!

P.S. the overwhelming count of shermans on allied side is nowhere near represented in the game... or do i just not see it?

Because of the nature of heavy tanks in tactical WW2 games and the Allies having nothing comparable to the Panther and Tiger, that would be difficult to balance, since the Germans would be able to use their heavies defensively as effective tools for area denial. Add to that the fact that the German infantry has alot of panzerfausts and it would be very hard for the Allies to push effectively in C even with superior resources.

It could work if the Allies were given late war tanks and/or prototypes that saw little action or none at all, but personally I would rather have it as it is now.

 

[megalos]

Because of the nature of heavy tanks in tactical WW2 games and the Allies having nothing comparable to the Panther and Tiger, that would be difficult to balance, since the Germans would be able to use their heavies defensively as effective tools for area denial. Add to that the fact that the German infantry has alot of panzerfausts and it would be very hard for the Allies to push effectively in C even with superior resources.

It could work if the Allies were given late war tanks and/or prototypes that saw little action or none at all, but personally I would rather have it as it is now.

Need to give those shermans the historically accurate smoke dischargers no?

 

[Ulatersk]

This is exactly it. Every WW2 RTS game has it arse backwards. CoH2 is exactly the same.

The Germans should start off strong, with the Allies coming back hard, completely out producing the Germans with reinforcements in C. Basically, after the Normandy landings, the entire German army in the West fought a fighting retreat all the way back to Berlin. There were few counter attacks, so few that they are all very well documented, due to the rarity.


I have no idea why Games makers always choose this fictional alternative when designing their games.

No, im pretty sure that the approach is correct. And there were quite more than a "few" counter-attacks.

 

[Alte]

Lol German divisions with better tanks in B and C are so lackluster in A its not even funny, L2P issue.

That said id rather prefer a much more "balanced" phase advantages (so less Panthers, KTs Tigers Jumbos, Sherman 76 and similar crap) with phases not being so cut and dry when it comes to advantage.

PS KTs are not worth the point cost, the game is won or lost in late A or early B...i prefer having good panzer 3s of the Windhund in A (still inferior to Shermans and M10s) and even French tin cans, than a tank that mostly comes "5 till 12" is easy to panic, and doesnt change the games end result.

 

[megalos]

Lol German divisions with better tanks in B and C are so lackluster in A its not even funny, L2P issue.

That said id rather prefer a much more "balanced" phase advantages (so less Panthers, KTs Tigers Jumbos, Sherman 76 and similar crap) with phases not being so cut and dry when it comes to advantage.

PS KTs are not worth the point cost, the game is won or lost in late A or early B...i prefer having good panzer 3s of the Windhund in A (still inferior to Shermans and M10s) and even French tin cans, than a tank that mostly comes "5 till 12" is easy to panic, and doesnt change the games end result.

Rubbish, I can easily hold my own as Lehr (the weakest faction in A) at the beginning, and pump out KT's till the cows come home. If you can't, it's L2P issue on your part. You have more than enough tools for holding in A, pgrens and AT guns a plenty, not to mention awesome vet puma's and the Pwerfer that can stop any meanginful advance in strength in its tracks.

 

[megalos]

No, im pretty sure that the approach is correct. And there were quite more than a "few" counter-attacks.

The correct approach is having Germany the strongest as the game goes on? Are you literally nuts? And no, comparatively, the German counter offensives were very few in number, and even less in any kind of success.

 

[Alte]

I think EUGEN tries to provide a hypothetical attempt in bringing a 'balanced' battle onto the field. But it feels like they overshot a bit.

You mean, despite all the advantages the allies have in phase A, certain players still cant plough through a far weaker enemy...if a German player is able to even halt the Allies initially with one hand tied up behind his back... he for sure deserves to win...and the abscence of "king tigers" and other fancy "5 till 12" kit wont change that.

For another example: the allied air superiority is nowhere near represented. I dont think (like a lot of other players) that the germans shouldnt get planes at all, but in the actual meta axis is more then just equal in terms of quantity and quality, especially together with the 88s
But thats just me... not playing ranked or quickplay or both

Actually allied air superiority is already represented by the fact German units are intially weaker/less available and cost more compared to allied stuff..Air force had the biggest impact on logistics and slowing down the German campaign movement to a crawl...

Buty yes what you want is complete domination with point and click solutions because "doh Allies won in Normandy"...

And please dont rant how German tanks are "krup stahl", the simple fact how AP mechanic work in this game means Allied tanks have a chance to take out expensive, later coming, German tanks in ways they never could irl (cough Stuarts kiling panthers sub 400 meters from the front cough)

 

[Herr_Robert]

Need to give those shermans the historically accurate smoke dischargers no?

Yeah, it would be very nice if Shermans were given smoke. Also, I would like to see the addition of HVAP/APCR, APDS and HEAT shells at some point with historical loadouts, realistic shell behavior and appropriate AI use of those shells. The Americans and Brits would be able to frontally penetrate heavy German tanks (except the King Tiger) at longer ranges then, which would go a long way to promote medium tank play even on open maps.

 

[Alte]

Rubbish, I can easily hold my own as Lehr (the weakest faction in A) at the beginning, and pump out KT's till the cows come home. If you can't, it's L2P issue on your part. You have more than enough tools for holding in A, pgrens and AT guns a plenty, not to mention awesome vet puma's and the Pwerfer that can stop any meanginful advance in strength in its tracks.

Lol "hold easy" against a kid that has no clue and wants to sit back and bombard with arty...are you seriously suggesting Allied divisions dont hold an advantage in phase A, both units and income ?!

The correct approach is having Germany the strongest as the game goes on? Are you literally nuts? And no, comparatively, the German counter offensives were very few in number, and even less in any kind of success.

And real war strategic situation has what to do with a company/batalion level RTS game...looks to me you want Germans loose no matter what....pathetic.

 

[Alte]

Yeah, it would be very nice if Shermans were given smoke. Also, I would like to see the addition of HVAP/APCR, APDS and HEAT shells at some point with historical loadouts, realistic shell behavior and appropriate AI use of those shells. The Americans and Brits would be able to frontally penetrate heavy German tanks (except the King Tiger) at longer ranges then, which would go a long way to promote medium tank play even on open maps.

Because the +1 AP increase for every 100 meters distance decrease doesnt exist, giving allied tanks a much bigger punch than IRL...meanwhile the armor on the Jumbo sherman is set so high it actually acts as it did IRL...

 

[megalos]

Lol "hold easy" against a kid that has no clue and wants to sit back and bombard with arty...are you seriously suggesting Allied divisions dont hold an advantage in phase A, both units and income ?!

Want to put it to the test? Get a couple of guys, and add me up (ChoccyStarfish). We play Axis.

And real war strategic situation has what to do with a company/batalion level RTS game...looks to me you want Germans loose no matter what....pathetic.

How does "I think Germany should be the strong ones in A" equate to "looks to me you want Germans loose no matter what....pathetic." hmmm?

 

[Alte]

Want to put it to the test? Get a couple of guys, and add me up (ChoccyStarfish). We play Axis.

Just mindblown, you use skill levels of individual players as a balancing factor...Allies have a clear cut advantage in A, period.

How does "I think Germany should be the strong ones in A" equate to "looks to me you want Germans loose no matter what....pathetic." hmmm?

Herr Rober explained it well enough "Because of the nature of heavy tanks in tactical WW2 games and the Allies having nothing comparable to the Panther and Tiger, that would be difficult to balance, since the Germans would be able to use their heavies defensively as effective tools for area denial. Add to that the fact that the German infantry has alot of panzerfausts and it would be very hard for the Allies to push effectively in C even with superior resources"

Similar layout is seen in CoH games, where the Germans are "late comers".

The irony is, when I first saw this game and the phase system i was excited, because you couldnt just deploy your heaviest tank from the get go, giving a breather for many less powerful units to shine on both sides...but yes Germany is able to deploy "krupp stahl" late game, and again ppl whine...we all know whats the real reason..."muh allies won in Normandy and so should I"

 

[Herr_Robert]

Because the +1 AP increase for every 100 meters distance decrease doesnt exist, giving allied tanks a much bigger punch than IRL...meanwhile the armor on the Jumbo sherman is set so high it actually acts as it did IRL...

I'm not sure how that's relevant to mention in response to my post, since the point of HVAP and APDS would be to allow long range engagements. They have higher AP, but other shortcomings such as inflicting less damage upon penetration and in the case of APDS poor accuracy. I do agree that the AP scaling can get ridiculous, though.

 

[Ody_CZ]

Lol German divisions with better tanks in B and C are so lackluster in A its not even funny, L2P issue.

ok let see
116 panzer .. one of the strongest phase A decks in game .. and have jagpanzer phase B one star panthers G phase C
12.ss .. have goddly phase A firefly and good inf ... and have wittman and panter D in phase B and bef panters panthers G phase C
352. very stong Phase A combo mg 42/ig18/ pak38 ... and have one of the best tanks in games 2x two stars jagdpanther phase C
21. have very similar tanks as allies in phase A and B .. bud have two star TK in phase C

3.fallsh and 716. are very strong Phase A deck
91. luflande is simply bad ..

only panzer lehr suck in pahse A . .but u have KT in pahse B

 

[local-festival]

ok let see
91. luflande is simply bad ..

I wouldn't dismiss Luftlande so fast, with the introduction of A phase Stuh 42 and buff of IG range that's a very potent division. I've lost to them as 101st couple of times. They even have HS in A to deal with armor.

 

[megalos]

Just mindblown, you use skill levels of individual players as a balancing factor...Allies have a clear cut advantage in A, period.

I said I can hold off allies A "factor" with Lehr, you told me I could not. I challenged you to a game, you bottled out. Go figure.

If you're claiming I am a better player than you, without so much as playing, then I have to question your argumentation, as it's coming from a player with low skill, therefore a weaker understanding of the game. If you're claiming I am not the better player, then come show me how to do it as allies.


You going to put your money where your mouth is or what? I will even get somebody to stream the game, and you can show the whole community how easy allies are in A.

So, you want to prove your point or not? I am willing to prove mine.

 

[Karlburg]

I wouldn't dismiss Luftlande so fast, with the introduction of A phase Stuh 42 and buff of IG range that's a very potent division. I've lost to them as 101st couple of times. They even have HS in A to deal with armor.

Yeah and they have phase A offmap as well, they aren't as bad as i thought. They also have the best howitzer in the game.

 

[Ody_CZ]

i basically only play 15th scottish and i think they are great. i only get in trouble when my enemy can out artillery me... which is ironic seing that the british artillery were the most numerous in normandy per division, and that they were the best at coordinating it all and focusing it, and supporting the fighting units in a short time when they needed. And also they were the best at counter artillery. Getting to the point that german infantry hated to be near their mortars... because as soon as they opened fire the british would shortly pinpoint their location and bombard it...

The problem then is that pretty much most german divisions CAN out artillery the 15h scottish, which is just hilarious. With the 2 inch mortar only getting 700m range, and it being the only that i can field in phase A. While the 25 pounder also has lower range than the german arty.

i think best example is the WESP its better arty then most british deks have acces to (and same as priest).. but how many good german deks rly use them ...

if they want to have asymmetrical balance .. they need tune down the power of german arty and air ... and truly let allies have historical advantage there ..to equalize the historical advantage of german armor and AT guns and infatry AT weapons..

power of racket arty and acces to biger guns lorraine/is18/ humel .and better mortars in phase A give the germans decisive advantage
88 mm AA and overperformig me 109G6/R6 holds them strong in air

BF 109G6/R6 is the bigest problem .. two star fighters dont belong in phase A or B for inf and panzer deks .. its BS . that plane is able to beat any ally fighter in game 1v1
the plane alone is stupid .. its Bf 109 with heavy(170kg include ammo) gunpods udner their wings .. but in game this dont influence the fly characteristic ... they have no right to have very good agility and turn with spitfire IX

 

[Spawnfärkäl]

Fight, fight, fight...

"muh allies won in Normandy and so should I"

You disqualified yourself with that statement... what a pity!

 

[GenosseKommissar]

As allies: Use smoke, stun panic at the right moments, set up ambushes, force cqc

As axis: Q + click on enemy spawn

GG