Phantom CTA happening now?

[gothos]

Hello folks,

I've been running a short little Brandenburg game and I've had this happen several different times. I'd go to war with Hansa, their allies: Lithuania, Bohemia, Livonian Order. My allies: Austria, France, Muscovy. All 3 declare readiness for war and have their CTA boxes checked. The message box on the side says cta was honored. Several battles later I notice I'm getting completely swarmed, turns out only Muscovy actually is in the war with me.
Next war, against Bohemia, Poland and Hansa, same stuff again - France checked as CTA, honored call message, later I find it's just me and Muscovy in the war.
Next war, againt Magdeburg, Thuringia, Scandinavia, Hansa... all 3 had "check" boxes in the CTA, honored call, but later I see once again just Muscovy in my war.



What the hell? I've just about had it with releasing countries I conquered due to these wars. What the hell is this?

 

[gothos]

OK I've rethought this a bit and... is this due to warleader changes? With CTA working fine against, say, Hansa, but when Lithuania takes warleader they suddenly don't want to fight anymore?

 

[AurochsAway]

Screenshots? It's probably because they were already involved in some wars that included one of the defender's allies. As they can't be at war against the same country twice, they won't join you.

 

[misterbean]

Have you tried calling them manually? I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but it might help clear why they don't join.

 

[gothos]

Have you tried calling them manually? I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but it might help clear why they don't join.

By the time I noticed they're not actually helping it's way beyond the 60 days. I'll try to see if I still have some proof in message history.

 

[DDRJake]

This has been happening to me too.

 

[GabbyDieJaeger]

I've had this happen to me the other way round. In my Austria game, ally Brandenburg calls me against Poland, I accept, but I'm not in the war at all? It seems to happen mainly inside the HRE.

 

[gothos]

OK I couldn't get the message log from it, but here's the war screen and diplo screen with France. There's not even a button for CTA so it's like they're already in the war somewhere, but they're not in the war as you can see. I still get the button for CTA for Austria at the same time.

 

[BaZERGer]

What type of war is France in?

 

[A Swell Guy]

They might be allied in a war with someone you are fighting against, or already fighting someone you are fighting, or you might be allied in a war with someone they are fighting against. This would explain nobody answering calls, yet no alliances breaking. If they join against you, though, it's probably just due to warleader changes.

 

[Xara]

There is no CTA button if they are already involved in a war which would, by their participation, prevent them from entering your war, and the CTA screen will show they might be willing, and even call them, but their acceptance has no effect. The same thing applies to a player who is called to a war they could not join - you can accept, but won't join, and there won't be any other consequences.

A nation cannot simultaneously be in a war alongside and against another nation, which is what causes this. You also can't be in two offensive wars against the same nation at a time. You can exploit that by attacking yourself the nation that your ally just attacked. Your war starts, you accept the ally's CTA, nothing happens.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

This is a UI bug and should be reported as such. The game is telling you the AI will join in a situation it can't possibly join.

 

[gothos]

This is a UI bug and should be reported as such. The game is telling you the AI will join in a situation it can't possibly join.

That's the thing: the message log did say they DID actually join. The other way in this same game I got a CTA from France to war against New Spain and another one against Aztec, and only ended up being in war with New Spain.

I'm thinking this has to do with cascading alliances and being unwilling to go to war with the new warleader. Then again that didn't happen later. In any case, I think cascading warleader should be indicated in the DoW interface.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

That's the thing: the message log did say they DID actually join. The other way in this same game I got a CTA from France to war against New Spain and another one against Aztec, and only ended up being in war with New Spain.

I'm thinking this has to do with cascading alliances and being unwilling to go to war with the new warleader. Then again that didn't happen later. In any case, I think cascading warleader should be indicated in the DoW interface.

I agree that alliance cascades are not handled well right now, however your situation is objectively and irrefutably a bug. The UI should never actively indicate something that isn't the case, especially not something of such a large magnitude as "will 100+ units join my side". At least with cascades, the game isn't lying to you outright, despite that they're a significant fake difficulty element unto themselves. Ally CTA has not worked in even 1 patch since I started playing, and I'd be surprised if it worked in 1.0-1.2, meaning that this tooltip has been inaccurate for over a year encompassing the entirety of the game's existence. Considering its potential impact, especially in ironman which will save your DoW and not let you undo it even though the game just lied to you, you'd think this kind of thing would be a higher patch priority :/.

However, apparently CTA was tremendously bugged, because they have fixed a few things with it already (though such isn't exactly stellar defense of how this mechanic was handled overall ^_^). If you have the save, please submit one with this iteration also.

 

[gothos]

I agree that alliance cascades are not handled well right now, however your situation is objectively and irrefutably a bug. The UI should never actively indicate something that isn't the case, especially not something of such a large magnitude as "will 100+ units join my side". At least with cascades, the game isn't lying to you outright, despite that they're a significant fake difficulty element unto themselves. Ally CTA has not worked in even 1 patch since I started playing, and I'd be surprised if it worked in 1.0-1.2, meaning that this tooltip has been inaccurate for over a year encompassing the entirety of the game's existence. Considering its potential impact, especially in ironman which will save your DoW and not let you undo it even though the game just lied to you, you'd think this kind of thing would be a higher patch priority :/.

However, apparently CTA was tremendously bugged, because they have fixed a few things with it already (though such isn't exactly stellar defense of how this mechanic was handled overall ^_^). If you have the save, please submit one with this iteration also.

Well it's all long gone as it's ironman and I'm about a hundred years further in the game by now. Next time I see this though... well.
I also wouldn't mind if the game would take DotF into account in this tooltip, as testing that little thing cost me a war with France and giving Kraków back to Poland. I guess you could say I was lucky I didn't make them hostile to top it off. (fun fact: France lost DotF because they DoWed Venad for conquest but never sent any troops, white peace)