Petition to rename Slavic Paganism

[fr-rein]

I hope we can import icons and have the addiadas stripes for Gopnikstvo

I disagree, Gopniks are the knights for the cultures following Addidastvo.

 

[viola]

What you're proposing is like an Irish character having a religion called 'Roman'.

I don't see what would be wrong with that.

An Irish guy follows the Roman religion. So what?

 

[XYN]

I don't see what would be wrong with that.

An Irish guy follows the Roman religion. So what?

In CK2 it would be pretty much that. With Irish Hellenic.

Of course, someone could say that Hellenic is not Greek... But we know that it is Greek. Just like Chinese doesn't stop being Chinese if we were to call it Sino instead of Chinese.

 

[velles]

On the other hand, I kind of don't really like slavic either. If I've played a long campaign and at the end of it I'm the ruler of a welsh slavic kingdom that sort of doesn't work right?

Because unlike universal religions (like Christianity or Islam) pagan religions were closely tied to a very specific culture group. Crusader Kings games model religions as something completely distinct from culture - that's why you can have Welsh king following Slavic faith. I think the best option is restricting the possibility of conversion for people outside certain culture groups (so converting to Slavic paganism would be easy for Polish, Russian or Bohemian culture but hard for Welsh). Or maybe something like state pantheon in I:R, blurring the line and allowing for syncretism.
Same story with heresies - unless you pick Dogmatic doctrine during reformation (or create a branch with some really despicable tenets such as ritual canibalism) pagan religions shouldn't have heresies.

 

[viola]

Because unlike universal religions (like Christianity or Islam) pagan religions were closely tied to a very specific culture group. Crusader Kings games model religions as something completely distinct from culture - that's why you can have Welsh king following Slavic faith. I think the best option is restricting the possibility of conversion for people outside certain culture groups (so converting to Slavic paganism would be easy for Polish, Russian or Bohemian culture but hard for Welsh). Or maybe something like state pantheon in I:R, blurring the line and allowing for syncretism.
Same story with heresies - unless you pick Dogmatic doctrine during reformation (or create a branch with some really despicable tenets such as ritual canibalism) pagan religions shouldn't have heresies.

Isn't the penalty to conversion for unreformed religions already doing that though?
Unless you're trying to convert other pagans (who should be able to switch from one pantheon to the other, like the Norse did in Russia eventually) you'll have a really hard time converting Catholic Welsh people to unreformed ethnic religion, at least until reformation comes into play.

 

[sreckom92]

Isn't the penalty to conversion for unreformed religions already doing that though?
Unless you're trying to convert other pagans (who should be able to switch from one pantheon to the other, like the Norse did in Russia eventually) you'll have a really hard time converting Catholic Welsh people to unreformed ethnic religion, at least until reformation comes into play.

Right, unreformed pagans do not have any scripture or official dogma. Beliefs and traditions are presented orally, so that makes them more likely to stay within one culture group.
By reforming faith, you create scripture, institute organized priesthood, establish an official pantheon and so on...
When you organize your religion like that, you have much easier time spreading it to other cultures. You can translate your religious texts and you wouldn't have many preachers each proclaiming their versions of the faith.

So....Slavic paganism was confined to Slavic cultures because it was not organized that much. Same goes for other pagan faiths.
It makes sense for them to break cultural barriers more easily if reformed and organized.

 

[velles]

Isn't the penalty to conversion for unreformed religions already doing that though?

I think this penalty also applies when you're try to convert Catholic Polish people or Otrhodox Russians - so no, it's not the same thing.

Right, unreformed pagans do not have any scripture or official dogma. Beliefs and traditions are presented orally, so that makes them more likely to stay within one culture group.
By reforming faith, you create scripture, institute organized priesthood, establish an official pantheon and so on...
When you organize your religion like that, you have much easier time spreading it to other cultures. You can translate your religious texts and you wouldn't have many preachers each proclaiming their versions of the faith.

So....Slavic paganism was confined to Slavic cultures because it was not organized that much. Same goes for other pagan faiths.
It makes sense for them to break cultural barriers more easily if reformed and organized.

No, ethnic religions that survived to this day (like Shinto in Japan) are still ethnic. So - unless you specifically pick up doctrines that break cultural barriers - reformation of pagan faith should not change its ethnic character. That would somewhat prevent weird stuff like "Slavic Welsh Kingdom of Jerusalem" and make pagan religions even more distinct.

 

[moscal]

reformation of pagan faith should not change its ethnic character

Not "should not change" but "don't must change".

Eg. Judaism was "ethnic religion", but had few success in expansion to other groups (eg. khazars, few pre-preislamic arabian tribes).

Generally "reformer of religion" decides "how face will have new religion". "We are Chosen Nation and true faith is only for our people" or "Our mission is spread religious truth to other nations".

 

[velles]

Still, I think that should be the default option (unless someone reforms faith with doctrines such as Cosmopolitan or Proselytizing)

 

[Myrkull]

I know why it's referred to as cultures in real terms - that doesn't disprove my point that it looks ugly and generic, though.

I don't see why it's unbelievable to you that a non-Slav would use a Slavic word like to describe their religion. Catholicism and Islam come from Greek and Arabic respectively, and most languages simply use localised forms of those terms.

What you're proposing is like an Irish character having a religion called 'Roman'.

But you know that all around the world there are people without Hindu ethnicity, who are Hinduists and they don't have problem with it.
Also this Irish character is not simply Catholic, but Roman Catholic.

 

[PDX-Nicou]

Hi there,

Thanks for raising your concerns.
Just to be clearer from what we communicated recently: Poganstvo has been changed.