Petition regarding the Republic of Florence

[War_lord]

Guys, you're missing the point. As far as Wiz is concerned, adding Tuscany isn't worth it because it wouldn't add to game play. The requirements for forming would involve grabbing two provinces next to you, and the reward would be claims on those provinces that you probably already have claims on. See the problem?

 

[Te. Kenzo]

Guys, you're missing the point. As far as Wiz is concerned, adding Tuscany isn't worth it because it wouldn't add to game play. The requirements for forming would involve grabbing two provinces next to you, and the reward would be claims on those provinces that you probably already have claims on. See the problem?

Like for Bukhara and Egypt. Also, there many other tags that are little and needing only a couple of provinces, Like Sardinia-Piedmont, Tibet and Hanover.

 

[War_lord]

Sardinia-Piedmont, Tibet and Hanover are of major historical importance, Bukhara has dramatically different game play to Uzbek and Egypt marks the Mamluk's transitioning into a modern state. Florence to Tuscany is literally a flag change.

 

[MiniaAr]

Sardinia-Piedmont, Tibet and Hanover are of major historical importance, Bukhara has dramatically different game play to Uzbek and Egypt marks the Mamluk's transitioning into a modern state. Florence to Tuscany is literally a flag change.

No: It's also a government change (Republic to Monarchy), a formable like Tibet for other Tuscan countries (Pisa, Siena and maybe Lucca will be able to pass the decision). It can also mean a change in of national ideas.

Finally, the fate of Tuscany is also of historical importance: Republic of Florence was mostly aligned with France during the Italian wars while the Duchy of Tuscany was later much more aligned with Spain/the Habsbourgs.

 

[War_lord]

Convince Wiz not me.

 

[MiniaAr]

Wiz, a good gameplay addition would be to have the republic of Florence with a government akin to the Dutch Republic, with a Republican slider between Medici and Signoria. Then the Duchy of Tuscany is a monarchy that can be formed with 100% Medici slider and some other conditions posted above.

You would thus have another very unique republican government (this could be part of ResPublica) for Florence, while the Tuscan tag would be reserved for either a very Medici Florence or other monarchies uniting the Tuscan region (Pisa, Siena, Lucca).
There should be no issue with the possibility to form Italy, as Savoy>Sardinia-Piemont>Italy and Brandenbourg/Teutons>Prussia>Germany are already very popular formations. Having a Florence>Tuscany>Italy would in my opinion be popular as well.

I meant the City Council independent of the major Medici dynasty, the more democratic part of Florence's government. With a maximal slider on this side, you would have something close to Savonarola's government.
Maybe there is a better word for it, I'd be glad to be enlightned.

No: It's also a government change (Republic to Monarchy), a formable like Tibet for other Tuscan countries (Pisa, Siena and maybe Lucca will be able to pass the decision). It can also mean a change in of national ideas.

Finally, the fate of Tuscany is also of historical importance: Republic of Florence was mostly aligned with France during the Italian wars while the Duchy of Tuscany was later much more aligned with Spain/the Habsbourgs.

Convince Wiz not me.

This is my proposal.

 

[LikeNothing]

For it to be worth the performance cost of another tag...

Then don't make it an extra tag? A cosmetic change of name would be much less costly, no? Just a few lines of code and some additional names in the /localizations folder?

In general I wonder why the names of the countries in this game cannot change without changing tags. For example Mamluks forming Egypt. What difference does it make exactly? I would argue the difference is less than that of Florence forming Tuscany. Should not a change of name be more than enough in this case too? Why not remove the Egypt tag?

Seriously, if the number of tags is a performance issue (I think it is, btw), then I earnestly suggest you remove more tags, such as Egypt. Oh, and please remove Scandinavia, of course. At least a state of Florence existed in reality. Although I must admit there is a difference in gameplay between a Sweden (or Denmark, or Norway, or whatever) capable of forming Scanidnavia and a formed Scandinavia. Scandinavia is weaker and much less fun because of the absolute lack of unique events and missions.

While we're at it, perhaps you should remove most of the new revolter tags in China too. That the names of those tags are hilariously displaced (by thousands of kilometers) and anachronistic (by centuries, if not millenia) has become a rather stale running joke among the Chinese fan community.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

Sardinia-Piedmont, Tibet and Hanover are of major historical importance, Bukhara has dramatically different game play to Uzbek and Egypt marks the Mamluk's transitioning into a modern state. Florence to Tuscany is literally a flag change.

If you know the history of Florence, you understand that the same argument of "historical" and "transition" are all things that apply also in this TAG. Also in gameplay terms, Sardinia-Piedmont and Egypt are literally only flag change in the same way.

 

[mrguymiah]

This is my proposal.

Perhaps detailing a different Florintine set of idea would aid your cause, since they greatly change gameplay.

 

[Metz]

Wiz, where are you?

 

[petertel123]

Sardinia-Piedmont.

not in this timeframe

tibet

never

Hannover are of major historical importance

hardly, besides getting in a pu with britain

Bukhara has dramatically different game play to Uzbek and Egypt marks the Mamluk's transitioning into a modern state

both can be said of florence/tuscany

 

[Porsenna]

I'm another who would ADORE the differentiation between Florence and Tuscany!

 

[War_lord]

Still has nothing to do with changing gameplay.

 

[EUTony]

It makes 0 sense to not have Florence in the game in 1444. It was the cradle of the Renaissance for pete's sake. Italy is one of EU4s most boring regions, it should get so much more flavor.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

Still has nothing to do with changing gameplay.

Ok, even if is so, we said is not the only criteria to add a tag in the game.

 

[cpm4001]

Events are a definitive possibility, but no promises.

Give me a substantial enough (gameplay) difference between Florence & Tuscany and I'll consider it as well.

Objectively speaking, there is no gameplay difference between Florence and Tuscany. However, if we determine acceptable formables by that logic, then all ex-colonial nation formables (with the possible exception of the USA if the "American Dream" events actually work), Sardinia-Piedmont, Arabia, Spain, Scandinavia, Greece, Egypt, Tibet, Hannover, Westphalia, probably Croatia (as a formable, not as a revolter), and likely several others that I can't think of off the top of my head should all be removed. They have no gameplay significance; they just represent a flag change...

 

[grommile]

not in this timeframe

The Duke of Savoy became King of Sardinia in 1720.

 

[WeissRaben]

The Duke of Savoy became King of Sardinia in 1720.

I think he's talking about the "important" part - which is pretty much true. While Savoy-later-SPI was an important regional power, its greatest contribution to world history come after the game's timeframe.

 

[zamieo]

Objectively speaking, there is no gameplay difference between Florence and Tuscany. However, if we determine acceptable formables by that logic, then all ex-colonial nation formables (with the possible exception of the USA if the "American Dream" events actually work), Sardinia-Piedmont, Arabia, Spain, Scandinavia, Greece, Egypt, Tibet, Hannover, Westphalia, probably Croatia (as a formable, not as a revolter), and likely several others that I can't think of off the top of my head should all be removed. They have no gameplay significance; they just represent a flag change...

Most of the ones you mention are cultural unions, though. Hannover, Westphalia & Sardinia-Piedmont are probably only there to add some flavor to the regions (Savoy, the Rhineland, Hannover). I'm personally not opposed to Florence per se, but I don't think it should be a priority. Italy in general needs more flavor.

 

[War_lord]

Ok, even if is so, we said is not the only criteria to add a tag in the game.

Again, it's Wiz you need to persuade. I'm merely pointing out that so far y'all are doing a crap job of it.