Petition regarding the Republic of Florence

[Wizzington]

There is exactly 1 Karelian revolter and it's there because the culture had no revolter tag.

Florence is already represented in-game by the Tuscany tag.

 

[Galaahd]

Wiz consider adding some events though please

 

[Wizzington]

Wiz consider adding some events though please

Events are a definitive possibility, but no promises.

Give me a substantial enough (gameplay) difference between Florence & Tuscany and I'll consider it as well.

 

[Metz]

Events are a definitive possibility, but no promises.

Give me a substantial enough difference between Florence & Tuscany and I'll consider it as well.

Calling all Florence experts. All hands on deck. This is our chance.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

What I can say now is: add something like for egypt tag maybe an administrative level or a date. So you can create it only in a more late date, you need to own at least Pisa, Siena and Firenze and so. Is a little flavour thing like mamelukes ---> egypt.

 

[Panzerschiffe]

I'm not seeing a big difference between Florence and Tuscany.

As Florence, grab one provinces and click "Form Tuscany" decision? Sounds like it wouldn't add much. Then again, a lot of people really seem interested in this happening. If Florence/Tuscany get more events it could be worth it.

 

[Metz]

I'm not seeing a big difference between Florence and Tuscany.

As Florence, grab one provinces and click "Form Tuscany" decision? Sounds like it wouldn't add much. Then again, a lot of people really seem interested in this happening. If Florence/Tuscany get more events it could be worth it.

You need both Siena and Pisa. But for it to work, Florence would have to be a duchy first and that can be acquired either through a created event or decision (depents on the developers). Historically they went from Republic to Duchy status because of the Pope.

So I guess to be able to form Tuscany, they would need to have a feudal government and be ranked as Duchy. To achieve this I'd say have Florence be able to control the Papal Curia, then the vent will fire as a way to simulate de Medici as Pope.

 

[Metz]

I'm not seeing a big difference between Florence and Tuscany.

As Florence, grab one provinces and click "Form Tuscany" decision? Sounds like it wouldn't add much. Then again, a lot of people really seem interested in this happening. If Florence/Tuscany get more events it could be worth it.

Also here is an event.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazzi_conspiracy

Basically an internal conflict between the Pazzis, Salviati, and de Medici families. A Salviati Archbishop was assassinated by the de Medici and thus the Pope forbade communion and mass. The Pope also asked Naples to attack Florence.

So I guess the event would be to either assassinate the Archbishop and target both families for extra money at the expense of religious influence of the Pope.

The events of the Pazzi conspiracy affected the developments of the Medici regime in two ways: they convinced the supporters of the Medici that a greater concentration of political power was desirable and they strengthened the hand of Lorenzo de' Medici who had demonstrated his keen ability in conducting the foreign affairs of the city. Emboldened, the Medicean party carried out new reforms.

 

[Demetrios]

It wouldn't have to be Florence -> Tuscany. You could also have the alternative Siena -> Tuscany or Lucca -> Tuscany as well, just to keep it interesting.

 

[Metz]

It wouldn't have to be Florence -> Tuscany. You could also have the alternative Siena -> Tuscany or Lucca -> Tuscany as well, just to keep it interesting.

Don't forget Pisa and Lucca too.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

However I don't think the requirements should be too complicated, I don't want the AI never be Tuscany.

 

[Metz]

In 1527 republicans in Florence once more eject their Medici rulers. This final attempt to be rid of the family collapses in 1530 after an eleven-month siege of the city by a Spanish army. From now on there is no more pretence that this city state is a republic. In 1532 a new constitution establishes Alessandro de' Medici as the hereditary duke of Florence.

The murder of Alessandro in 1537 causes the leadership of the family to be transferred in that year to Cosimo, a member of a junior branch. With his emergence, the Medici family and the city of Florence begin to acquire a new identity.

In 1569 the pope creates Cosimo grand duke of Tuscany. During his reign the region, with Florence as its capital, incorporates the great prize of Siena (from 1557). The grand duchy of Tuscany now takes its place among the great dynasties of Europe. Two women, Catherine and Marie de Medici, play powerful roles on the European stage as queen consorts and regents of France.

The inheritance passes down peacefully within the ruling Medici family, to son or brother, until Gian Gastone dies without an heir in 1737. Thereafter the grand duchy becomes attached to the imperial house of Austria (by the treaty of Vienna in 1738).

Florence and Tuscany undergo upheavals during the Napoleonic period, followed by restoration of the grand duchy in the early 19th century. The mid-century brings the successful struggle to be free of Austrian rule and the establishment of the independent kingdom of Italy - of which Florence is the provisional capital, from 1865, until Rome is captured in 1870.

The Grand Duchy of Tuscany (Italian: Granducato di Toscana, Latin: Magnus Ducatus Etruriae) was a central Italian monarchy that existed, with interruptions, from 1569 to 1859, replacing the Duchy of Florence. The grand duchy's capital was Florence. Before the advent of the House of Lorraine, Tuscany was nominally a state of the Holy Roman Empire until the Peace of Westphalia in 1648.

The grand duchy, initially, was ruled by the House of Medici until its extinction in 1737. Under the Medici, Tuscany thrived. While not as internationally renowned as the old republic, it bore witness to unprecedented economic and military success under Cosimo I and his sons, until the reign of Ferdinando II, whose reign saw the beginning of the state's long economic decline. It peaked under Cosimo III. The Medici's only advancement in the latter days of their existence was their elevation to royalty, by the Holy Roman Emperor, in 1691. The senior branch of the Medici line went extinct in 1737.

Francis Stephen of Lorraine, a cognatic descendant of the Medici, succeeded the family and ascended the throne of his Medicean ancestors. Tuscany was governed by a viceroy, Marc de Beauvau-Craon, for his entire rule. His descendants ruled, and resided in, the grand duchy until 1859, barring one interruption, when Napoleon Bonaparte gave Tuscany to the House of Bourbon-Parma. Following the collapse of the Napoleonic system in 1814, the grand duchy was restored. The United Provinces of Central Italy, a client state of the Kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont, annexed Tuscany in 1859. Tuscany was formally annexed to Sardinia in 1860, following a landslide referendum, in which 95% of voters approved.

In gameplay terms:

Florentine Ideas: Ideas regarding trade, economy, diplomacy, and administration.

Tuscan Ideas: Ideas regarding administration, military, naval capacity, and some trade.

Florence went from Republic to Duchy (government switch) to Grand Duchy of Tuscany (tag switch). Grand Duchy of Tuscany was a powerhouse in Italy with a lot of potential. The family lasting in power up to 1737 also means a lot. Eventually I believe Sardinia-Piedmont annexed the Grand Duchy and form Italy later on after acquiring the southern states of Italy.

 

[neondt]

Events are a definitive possibility, but no promises.

Give me a substantial enough (gameplay) difference between Florence & Tuscany and I'll consider it as well.

I suggested some events here and in the post below that.

The gameplay reason for any Tuscan country (not just Florence) for forming Tuscany is the same as whatever the reasons for allowing Ragusa to form Croatia, Irish minors to form Ireland, or Mazovia to form Poland were; Tuscany is a region and Tuscan is a cultural identity. Florence is a Tuscan city-state. Croatia is a region and Croatian is a cultural identity. Ragusa is a Croatian city-state.

Tuscany could also be the primary tag for the Tuscan culture, as opposed to any of the 1444 minors.

It also happened historically. What's the gameplay reason for letting England form GB? They keep the same ideas and will probably have Scottish accepted anyway, so the cultural union doesn't do much. We can form GB, Prussia, Russia, and Spain because those "formations" happened historically despite their being very little mechanical difference between them and the countries most likely to form them.

 

[Metz]

Events are a definitive possibility, but no promises.

Give me a substantial enough (gameplay) difference between Florence & Tuscany and I'll consider it as well.

Also have to take into account that the Grand Duchy of Tuscany was formed because of Florence being a Duchy beforehand. Had Florence remained a Republic there would have most likely not been a Grand Duchy of Tuscany. It was already enough for a Republic to annex another one (Florence annexing Pisa). That was pushing boundaries. However the elevation to Duchy changed things in the sense that there was now a more appropiate sense of self-entitlement to land rule and thus Siena and Lucca were annexed as they were regional rivals since in the eyes of all global nobles, a duke and the elected leaders of republics aren't equals in any sense. To have the different tags would be excellent but it is not as easy to form. You'd need the Duchy status event to fire and only then can you become elevated and change to being another country (which is something that shouldn't be exclusive to Florence; Pisa, Siena and Lucca should also be able to form the Grand Duchy of Tuscany).

 

[neondt]

One of the larger reservations about Florence > Tuscany is that the Tuscan region is small so it looks a bit pointless. I'd like to point out that in 1.2 Tuscany has more provinces than Ireland, which remains (rightly) formable. If the requirements for formnig Tuscany were simply ADM tech 10 and holding a bunch of provinces, I think that's sufficiently difficult because of how AE in the HRE works. You can't just roflstomp through Italy without making powerful enemies. Sure it'd still be very easy for most players, but you could say the same about GB.

 

[Metz]

We could have:

Republic of Florence > Duchy of Florence > Grand Duchy of Tuscany > Kingdom of Italy
Republic of Pisa > Duchy of Pisa > Grand Duchy of Tuscany > Kingdom of Italy
Republic of Siena > Duchy of Siena > Grand Duchy of Tuscany > Kingdom of Italy
Republic of Lucca > Duchy of Lucca > Grand Duchy of Tuscany > Kingdom of Italy


Grand Duchy status would be a special one awarded (after forming Duchy of Tuscany) just like Archduchy is awarded to Austria.

 

[Metz]

One of the larger reservations about Florence > Tuscany is that the Tuscan region is small so it looks a bit pointless. I'd like to point out that in 1.2 Tuscany has more provinces than Ireland, which remains (rightly) formable. If the requirements for formnig Tuscany were simply ADM tech 10 and holding a bunch of provinces, I think that's sufficiently difficult because of how AE in the HRE works. You can't just roflstomp through Italy without making powerful enemies. Sure it'd still be very easy for most players, but you could say the same about GB.

The change wouldn't be color. It would also be ideas and flavor.

 

[neondt]

We could have:

Republic of Florence > Duchy of Florence > Grand Duchy of Tuscany > Kingdom of Italy
Republic of Pisa > Duchy of Pisa > Grand Duchy of Tuscany > Kingdom of Italy
Republic of Siena > Duchy of Siena > Grand Duchy of Tuscany > Kingdom of Italy
Republic of Lucca > Duchy of Lucca > Grand Duchy of Tuscany > Kingdom of Italy


Grand Duchy status would be a special awarded one just like Archduchy is awarded to Austria.

Alternatively "Grand Duchy" could just be how the king-tier "rank" is localised for that country.

 

[Metz]

Alternatively "Grand Duchy" could just be how the king-tier "rank" is localised for that country.

True. But it would be best to be special like Arch Duchy so if a player forms Kingdom of Italy, he'd be receiving for prestige and bonuses than what he was receiving as Grand Duchy of Tuscany.

 

[petertel123]

Events are a definitive possibility, but no promises.

Give me a substantial enough (gameplay) difference between Florence & Tuscany and I'll consider it as well.

forming tuscany gives
1. monarchy government
2. claims on all tuscan provinces (provided that not all provinces are necessary for formation, otherwise cores?)
3. access to florentine/tuscan flavor if formed by another nation than florence
4. different ideas if formed by someone else than florence (rid yourself of boring italian minor ideas), can also provide florence with other ideas if florence gets their own ideas
5. primary nation of tuscan culture
6. one time prestige bonus

requirements:
1. own florence, siena and pisa (other tuscan provinces like lucca not required)
2. admin 10
3. primary culture is tuscan