Petition for Post 1750 Units for Non-Western Tech Groups
- Thread starter illapa
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Everything is developing fairly correctly... then Western jumps on a rocket ship and skyrockets thru the moon
I support it
I support it
I think at least at the early stage of EU4 time period, Western Europe still had not reached the turning point making them massively superior comparing to the Muslim and Asian world (except the nomads and tribal society maybe). So if a Muslim or Asian nation actually can do everything right and be lucky enough from the beginning, they should have a chance, though not easy, to stay competitive comparing to Western Europe throughout the game. However, I think the westernization option shall still be there but harder to achieve. It allow you to catch up if you are far behind.
I think this way also offers some variety in gameplay. Playing as a non-western country, you can dedicate most of your resource to try to stay technologically on par with Western Europe. Or you can put your resource somewhere else and also prepare yourself for westernization. Still can't say it is very historically correct since the westernization in EU4 sense (country actively trying to switch into western way, rather than becoming colony of western country) outside of Europe doesn't really happen in the game's time period I think. (I am thinking of examples like Japan and China).
I think this way also offers some variety in gameplay. Playing as a non-western country, you can dedicate most of your resource to try to stay technologically on par with Western Europe. Or you can put your resource somewhere else and also prepare yourself for westernization. Still can't say it is very historically correct since the westernization in EU4 sense (country actively trying to switch into western way, rather than becoming colony of western country) outside of Europe doesn't really happen in the game's time period I think. (I am thinking of examples like Japan and China).
Most of the countries should not be able to westernize at all, it makes no sense. Who are they exactly to be able to achieve this level skipping many others? As others said, westernization should be a gradual hard process, so that westernizing as an Eastern country is about 2 times easier than as Muslim and so on. Atm any primitive tribe westernizes at the same rate as European nations (provided they can fuel the process with MP), that's simply moronic. It's like barbarians flying to the moon skipping steam power.
+1. I do agree that the lower tech nation's units shouldn't be as good as the western ones, so the incentive for westernization is there, but, hell, if we're both the same military tech level, I should at least have a reasonable chance of victory if other factors than my tech group favor me and not have to see my army killed by the thousands by some two thousand western superheroes.
I definitely agree with this. The way I see it, is that since westernization requires you to be behind in tech, in a hypothetical situation where you manage to keep all three tech levels up to par with the westerners, the game would actually be punishing you for being exceptionally well advanced. Since you would neither have a good military or the ability to westernize and become competitive.
I'm honestly pretty surprised to even hear those units aren't there... you'd think they would be, just in case, even if there's only a small chance of them actually ever showing up in the game.
Should have probably made the initial post shorter to not scare people away but come on people make your voices heard we want fixes like this we don't want to wait for 1 small dlc every 6 months or so. At that rate we would need to wait for a Middle east dlc, sub-Sahara Africa dlc, Indian, East Asian, Eastern Europe, Meso-American, South American? This alone would be some 7 dlc which would be 3 or more years of waiting.
Add new units for us Paradox so we are rewarded for keeping up in tech. Invisible arbitrary limits are not fun and unrealistic.
Add new units for us Paradox so we are rewarded for keeping up in tech. Invisible arbitrary limits are not fun and unrealistic.
I support this well-written argument.
And whilst we're on it, techgroup based ships please.
And whilst we're on it, techgroup based ships please.
They really should have units for all techs at all levels. Its understandable if they all arnt as good as western but the non western techs should be able to put up a decent fight on Equal levels.
Because if I knew if by waiting enough I played a indian tech and I would get lol op elephants that would trash the English reds,
Or staying as a hode tech and getting lol op horsemen, or staying a Islamic tech and getting a OP 64lbs. Cannon that would breach walls uber easy.
Or as Chinese tech getting super solider samurai that cost an arm and a leg but are Swedish/Prussia strong units.
(I know the samurai one is over the to top, but you get the idea.)
That I would play non Europe more and not feel like if I smash all lucky nations, its GG for the world.
Even if I ony get 100/50 or so years to enjoy them,it would be the kind of enjoyment like forming the holy Roman empire.
You earned the right to be OP. And suriving to late game as a non Europe tech should have a nice treat to show off.
Because if I knew if by waiting enough I played a indian tech and I would get lol op elephants that would trash the English reds,
Or staying as a hode tech and getting lol op horsemen, or staying a Islamic tech and getting a OP 64lbs. Cannon that would breach walls uber easy.
Or as Chinese tech getting super solider samurai that cost an arm and a leg but are Swedish/Prussia strong units.
(I know the samurai one is over the to top, but you get the idea.)
That I would play non Europe more and not feel like if I smash all lucky nations, its GG for the world.
Even if I ony get 100/50 or so years to enjoy them,it would be the kind of enjoyment like forming the holy Roman empire.
You earned the right to be OP. And suriving to late game as a non Europe tech should have a nice treat to show off.
Right and I'm in the opposite spot in my Ming game. I just defeated Castile in a war, then I defeated Russia, then I defeated a Portuguese/English invasion......and now I'm at this point where it is tech level 23 so I am never going to get a new infantry unit.
Starting with Tech level 26 (~1750) suddenly everyone hits a wall and westerners might as well be armed with plasma rifles. Even the Ottomans. I believe that if you keep up in tech you have overcome the penalties and you should at least be rewarded with units that can fight back.
Follow history because it's a great story and a great place to make a game in. However, just because everyone got crushed 1750 onwards does not mean that they should have a hardcoded roflstomp. I've NEVER seen an AI keep up in tech as the non-western tech groups except for Russia, which has a natural tech bonus, so adding this into the game Paradox would ONLY effect human players. Why not give human players more possibilities and more ways to play.
At the moment in my Ming game? I probably have to westernize because from here onward I can only lose despite keeping up in tech with the rest of the world.
Starting with Tech level 26 (~1750) suddenly everyone hits a wall and westerners might as well be armed with plasma rifles. Even the Ottomans. I believe that if you keep up in tech you have overcome the penalties and you should at least be rewarded with units that can fight back.
Follow history because it's a great story and a great place to make a game in. However, just because everyone got crushed 1750 onwards does not mean that they should have a hardcoded roflstomp. I've NEVER seen an AI keep up in tech as the non-western tech groups except for Russia, which has a natural tech bonus, so adding this into the game Paradox would ONLY effect human players. Why not give human players more possibilities and more ways to play.
At the moment in my Ming game? I probably have to westernize because from here onward I can only lose despite keeping up in tech with the rest of the world.