Petition: Don't remove supply and demand

[Qoff]

I love the supply and demand system. I preferred it more in EU3 where there could be a greater swing in demand, but I still like it.

I'll be keen to see if this new system is more or less enjoyable.

I like the concept, the idea of it, but the way that PDS don't share how it properly works is kind of bad, I hope that it still exists as a hidden mechanic in the new patch and that the events are based in this hidden mechanic, if the events are purely random it will be a great loss to the game.

 

[Golladan]

What if the events aren't random at all and completely predictable?

 

[blackchoas]

What if the events aren't random at all and completely predictable?

I think this will likely be the make or break part of this new system, if the events are random and dynamic with many possible variant outcomes some based on world events and others random then it could be quite interesting

The example they gave was the Slave Trade starting and increasing the price of slaves, however is there later a counter event when a few nations abolish slavery to then tank the price of slaves?

What about some random events, like the King of France becomes known as a smoker of tobacco or drinker of coffee making these item fashionable with the nobility, spiking the prices? Or the Pope declares the smoking of tobacco to be a sin and the smoking of it becomes illegal in many Catholic nations crashing the market?

What range of events with exactly what effect are we looking at? Will they be all simple up and down price swings on a single item or will some events effect multiple items, like Cocoa becomes the preferred drink of nobles and they stop to drink Tea and Coffee, raising the Cocoa price and tanking the Coffee and Tea price

 

[kitemasaki]

I think this will likely be the make or break part of this new system, if the events are random and dynamic with many possible variant outcomes some based on world events and others random then it could be quite interesting

The example they gave was the Slave Trade starting and increasing the price of slaves, however is there later a counter event when a few nations abolish slavery to then tank the price of slaves?

What about some random events, like the King of France becomes known as a smoker of tobacco or drinker of coffee making these item fashionable with the nobility, spiking the prices? Or the Pope declares the smoking of tobacco to be a sin and the smoking of it becomes illegal in many Catholic nations crashing the market?

What range of events with exactly what effect are we looking at? Will they be all simple up and down price swings on a single item or will some events effect multiple items, like Cocoa becomes the preferred drink of nobles and they stop to drink Tea and Coffee, raising the Cocoa price and tanking the Coffee and Tea price

I like the current mechanic, even though it took me forever to understand it, but I'm excited to try something new out. If it works out its huzzah, but if not, then maybe it will be reconsidered. It just seems to be a fuss about something that isn't really broadly understood or talked about anyhow. How many times do you come across posters insisting diplo tech isn't necessary, or that trade is just 1 click and set? Changing the supply/demand to event driven won't really alter their appreciation of the game then. It doesn't seem the community appreciated that one area of complexity as it was. Might as well try something else out then.

 

[VampireBoot]

Frankly this is just a lazy way of solving a problem.

Because complicated, labor-intensive solutions are always desirable?

 

[TheBoozehammer]

Honestly, a complex economic system a la Victoria 2 would be best, but that could be a whole expansion in itself. I definitely prefer this over the current system.

 

[loup99]

+1, the supply demand system was great and dynamic whhile still staying realistic.

 

[oblio-]

Honestly, a complex economic system a la Victoria 2 would be best, but that could be a whole expansion in itself. I definitely prefer this over the current system.

I don't know about Victoria 2, but I do agree that the economy deserves its own patch/DLC.

And I think that cleaning up the system is worth it. It is a secondary thing anyway and I'd rather have something simple and clear while they fix the major things, like they are in AoW.

Once most of the basics are done, they can go back to improving the lesser known/used/important parts, IMO.

 

[itsuart]

I love dynamic systems. But I'll support semistatic goods pricing. With hope that one day PDX will revamp economic simulation: ability to become monopolist and destroy your harvest to maintain high prices (and be hated by that and being attacked for that), do actual checks how many people will afford such prices, etc, etc. Being able to ruin economy of an enemy without resorting to violence would be priceless!
But until PDX makes such system - event based goods pricing is fine.

 

[Pellucid]

/anti-signed

The Supply Demand system is good IN THEORY, but it almost never works out well in practice. It would need massive optimizations to be made workable.

 

[Slym]

Wait, people really didn't understand the supply and demand system? It says what increases the supply and the demand right on the tooltip. It was a fun mechanic that they kinda broke in EU4 so now they're replacing it instead of fixing it. I don't think there's anything wrong with what they're changing it to, but I liked the fluidity of the supply and demand system more. I really enjoyed in EU3 how iron and copper where cheap early in the game but by late game with massive armies they were some of the most expensive goods in the world.

Honestly I can't imagine anything the new system will be able to do that the old one couldn't with a bit of tweaking, but if paradox wants to make the prices easier to understand that's their prerogative. I'm an economics nerd so I love looking at the supply and demand and seeing why things cost as much as they do, but I guess not a lot of other people do.

 

[nalfz]

+1 times infinity to this one
remember, all the people saying it will improve performance, doesn't the fact that they explicitly said the change wasn't for optimisation reasons very strongly imply that it won't impact performance at all?
Let's try this then
http://strawpoll.me/2753269

No scripts, this is for your own good you know

 

[CommunistCookie]

The thing about this and one-province-one-terrain is that, while complexity in these areas is technically being reduced, the new mechanics are going to be intuitive enough for players to properly take advantage of.

Nobody understands or utilizes the current supply/demand mechanic. The new system looks transparent enough that we can say "oh, the price of slaves just shot up, maybe I should get some slave provinces". As for the terrain changes, they won't change the rules by which we fight in any meaningful way. People will still defend in mountains and attack in plains. Something predetermined terrain might do is encourage people to differentiate between more than just mountains and plains.

 

[nalfz]

In my opinion the only valid criticism for these two systems is the apparent lack of clarity, in which case the solution is to make it clearer rather than remove the whole thing
Everything else seems to just be saving-face; "maybe it won't be so much worse"

And, CommunistCookie, both of those arguments are towards clarity and transparency. If you paid more attention to the supply/demand system you'd very much be able to see the prices of slaves going up
To say 'nobody understands or utilises the current mechanic' is presumptuous and, if you'll accept anecdotal evidence, plainly wrong because I, for one, find it very useful. You can see which trade nodes have valuable goods and you can make sure you get slave provinces when the new world starts getting colonised and the demand shoots up, etc.

 

[zz77]

-1

Worldwide demand/supply ratio and one worldwide price is a way too arcadish, even in modern globalized world. Imho supply/demand and prices should be local for every node. Overall trade system should be totally changed and based on trade between nodes. Otherwise I don't see a problem in removing of this feature now.

 

[the cool guy]

What if the events aren't random at all and completely predictable?

Knowing Paradox they aren't going to be in vanilla. Waiting for VeF to fix it if the change is not reverted.

fix the major things, like they are in AoW.

Everyones money is a major thing. The ability to earn a lot of money is also a major thing. By gaining more money you can field a bigger army. With a bigger army you may be to win some tough wars..

Worldwide demand/supply ratio and one worldwide price is a way too arcadish, even in modern globalized world. Imho supply/demand and prices should be local for every node. Overall trade system should be totally changed and based on trade between nodes.

This would be totally cool. But i don't agree with removing a system to put in what feels like a placeholder system in it's place.

 

[AKronblad]

Worldwide demand/supply ratio and one worldwide price is a way too arcadish, even in modern globalized world. Imho supply/demand and prices should be local for every node. Overall trade system should be... based on trade between nodes.

Very interesting idea!

 

[nalfz]

Worldwide demand/supply ratio and one worldwide price is a way too arcadish, even in modern globalized world. Imho supply/demand and prices should be local for every node. Overall trade system should be totally changed and based on trade between nodes.

This, so much this, but like the cool guy said, I don't think paradox sees this change as a placeholder, seeing as that would be pretty pointless
I definitely think this would be the way to go, were it an option. It's ridiculous in this game that they place the same price on chinaware and tea and spices in asia where they are abundant as in europe where they are practically nonexistent other than imported ones, but that's another problem that this static event price system won't fix
If anything it makes it worse, because now, not only are prices the same across the whole map but they are going to be the same across the whole time frame save for a few ridiculously railroaded and static events

 

[AKronblad]

Give Paradox some relief in putting this new system into place. If we're lucky and Wiz and the other guys have done their job right (which they normally have), I'm sure that there will be plenty of opportunities to develop this new system further through events, giving effects and adding modifiers to prices of certain goods.

 

[No idea]

I think this will likely be the make or break part of this new system, if the events are random and dynamic with many possible variant outcomes some based on world events and others random then it could be quite interesting

The example they gave was the Slave Trade starting and increasing the price of slaves, however is there later a counter event when a few nations abolish slavery to then tank the price of slaves?

What about some random events, like the King of France becomes known as a smoker of tobacco or drinker of coffee making these item fashionable with the nobility, spiking the prices? Or the Pope declares the smoking of tobacco to be a sin and the smoking of it becomes illegal in many Catholic nations crashing the market?

What range of events with exactly what effect are we looking at? Will they be all simple up and down price swings on a single item or will some events effect multiple items, like Cocoa becomes the preferred drink of nobles and they stop to drink Tea and Coffee, raising the Cocoa price and tanking the Coffee and Tea price

Agreed. Dynamic events are the way to go. Otherwise you can bet all players will go for slaves at exactly the same date in every single game. It will become reallly boring after a few games. Make things unpredictable to some extent. Plausible but not always the same.