Petition: Don't remove supply and demand

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the cool guy

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In the latest DD it was announced that supply and demand would be axed. This feature had so much potential. The devs have not even given a good reason for the change.
Sign this petition if you want to keep supply and demand!
 

Golladan

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I don't know if the change was motivated by optimization, but removing supply and demand should improve game speed. Especially with all these new provinces.
It probably will. But I don't think it will be noticeable. Since that thing was only calculated once a month.
 

the cool guy

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I can't tell if these posts are just jokes?

Who cares about supply and demand seriously?

I do otherwise i wouldn't be making this post.

I don't know if the change was motivated by optimization, but removing supply and demand should improve game speed. Especially with all these new provinces.

You can't just remove key aspects of the game for optimization. It's like removing the current battle system for a fully dice roll based system for optimization.
 

Qoff

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I do otherwise i wouldn't be making this post.



You can't just remove key aspects of the game for optimization. It's like removing the current battle system for a fully dice roll based system for optimization.

The problem with supply and demand is that is a feature that isn't very well explained so most of the players dodn't care about it.
 

Krajzen

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I can't tell if these posts are just jokes?

Who cares about supply and demand seriously?


Uhh I kinda support this post although I will say it in another way:



does anyone from this thread really understands how supply and demand work? Because this system was so overcomplicated (when I checked the wiki) I seriously doubt more than 5% of people understood what the hell is going on with supply & demand, mathematically speaking :D

New system will be simpler and with basically the same effects. Probably it can be even better.



CURRENT SYSTEM


The price of a good is the base price of the good times demand divided by supply. Base price is 3 for "luxury" goods and 2 for other goods. Supply and demand are computed on a global level; each province contributes supply of a single good and demand of all goods based on the goods' demand modifiers and base tax. Specifically:

supply % = sum of all ( province goods produced of the good * supply scale for the good ) * 1%
demand % = sum of all ( province goods produced * product of all ( province demand modifiers ) * 0.1 ) * 1%[1]
price = base price * demand % / supply %
Jump up ↑ The comment in prices.txt is a holdover from EU3 and is no longer valid. See [1] and the talk page for tests.
The supply scale for a good affects how many goods produced equates to actual supply. For example, grain has a supply scale of 0.4, so 1 unit of grain produced equals 0.4% supply.

Supply % has a ceiling of 200%. Demand % has a floor of 1% and a ceiling of 500% for all goods except Iron (200%).

Manipulating supply is generally easier than manipulating demand, since supply is a much more local and trade good-specific phenomenon than demand.

Each point of positive stability increases the nation's provinces' demand for all goods. Note that the demand being the same from stability 0 to -3 is likely a bug, and it is likely intended to be 100%, not 72.9% at 0 stability. The effects are as follows:

Stability effect
3 133.1%
2 108,9%
1 89.1%
0 72.9%
-1 72.9%
-2 72.9%
-3 72.9%
The demand modifiers are multiplicative, so, for example, a province that produces fish and has an Armory will have 105% * 50% = 52.5% demand for Grain.

"Provinces producing" is the total number of provinces that have that trade good specified as their last known trade good. Note that 79 provinces have unknown trade goods at all dates, and provinces that start uncolonized will have unknown trade goods, so the numbers here are only estimates.


oBmrwq


To sum up: nobody knows what the hell is happening and trade charts show a lot of numbers so let's click on many provinces with many goods and pretend it is extremely ambitious!






POST AOW SYSTEM


The prices are fixed until historical flavour event happens, such as slave trade. You can influence prices via decisions and proper reactions on events. Strategy, history and simplicity.

The end.
 

Qoff

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Uhh I kinda support this post although I will say it in another way:



does anyone from this thread really understands how supply and demand work? Because this system was so overcomplicated (when I checked the wiki) I seriously doubt more than 5% of people understood what the hell is going on with supply & demand, mathematically speaking :D

New system will be simpler and with basically the same effects. Probably it can be even better.



CURRENT SYSTEM


The price of a good is the base price of the good times demand divided by supply. Base price is 3 for "luxury" goods and 2 for other goods. Supply and demand are computed on a global level; each province contributes supply of a single good and demand of all goods based on the goods' demand modifiers and base tax. Specifically:

supply % = sum of all ( province goods produced of the good * supply scale for the good ) * 1%
demand % = sum of all ( province goods produced * product of all ( province demand modifiers ) * 0.1 ) * 1%[1]
price = base price * demand % / supply %
Jump up ↑ The comment in prices.txt is a holdover from EU3 and is no longer valid. See [1] and the talk page for tests.
The supply scale for a good affects how many goods produced equates to actual supply. For example, grain has a supply scale of 0.4, so 1 unit of grain produced equals 0.4% supply.

Supply % has a ceiling of 200%. Demand % has a floor of 1% and a ceiling of 500% for all goods except Iron (200%).

Manipulating supply is generally easier than manipulating demand, since supply is a much more local and trade good-specific phenomenon than demand.

Each point of positive stability increases the nation's provinces' demand for all goods. Note that the demand being the same from stability 0 to -3 is likely a bug, and it is likely intended to be 100%, not 72.9% at 0 stability. The effects are as follows:

Stability effect
3 133.1%
2 108,9%
1 89.1%
0 72.9%
-1 72.9%
-2 72.9%
-3 72.9%
The demand modifiers are multiplicative, so, for example, a province that produces fish and has an Armory will have 105% * 50% = 52.5% demand for Grain.

"Provinces producing" is the total number of provinces that have that trade good specified as their last known trade good. Note that 79 provinces have unknown trade goods at all dates, and provinces that start uncolonized will have unknown trade goods, so the numbers here are only estimates.


oBmrwq



POST AOW SYSTEM


The prices are fixed until historical flavour event happends, such as slave trade. You can influence prices via decisions and proper reactions on events.

The end.

You realise that you just quoted the wiki and that even the wiki don't know how it works and that the formula is from eu3 right?
 

kitemasaki

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Is this another one of your wild assumptions?
Correct.
So far we have only seen the one example and the blurb on New Price Mechanic. Nowhere was it stated that we can influence (as we can currently) the price based on reacting to events. Just that important events occur. We aren't informed what the triggers are yet.
 

Qoff

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Correct.
So far we have only seen the one example and the blurb on New Price Mechanic. Nowhere was it stated that we can influence (as we can currently) the price based on reacting to events. Just that important events occur. We aren't informed what the triggers are yet.

Probably the supply demand will still be there in the game but as a hidden feature that trigger events. The idea of supply and demand is cool, but is very complicated right now, supply is easy to understand how to improve, but the demand is something that we can only speculate.
 

darkyouck

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The feature was flawed from EU3 already.

Just take a look at how base tax = goods produced changed the prices and made wool the richest commodity in Europe and you realize how this feature was useless and did add nothing to the game. And the fact every expansion after another did break the feature even more.
 

Utretch

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While at first I wasn't pleased with the idea, given a little time to mull over the idea I don't mind the change much. The current system is opaque and largely uninteresting, while the idea of an event driven system seems much more workable. At least this way it'll be easy to control and mod if desired, even if it's somewhat less dynamic inherently.
 

Golladan

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The feature was flawed from EU3 already.

Just take a look at how base tax = goods produced changed the prices and made wool the richest commodity in Europe and you realize how this feature was useless and did add nothing to the game. And the fact every expansion after another did break the feature even more.
This change does absolutely nothing to the base tax = goods produced thing.
 

Delta107

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Frankly this is just a lazy way of solving a problem.