Perspective from a relatively new PI grand strat gamer

[JK47]

This is all opinion and conjecture from a stupid forum n00b! Ignore, flame, and/or troll at your will.

Crusader Kings II is a breakthough hit. It has blurred the line of the grand strategy game and opened the genre up to many new players. I was a player who, before CK2, had only tried EU2 and promptly dropped it to go back to Rome Total War, Medieval Total War 2, and Empire Total War (which, for the most part, I only played the campaigns and autofinished battles) when I was on my strategy kick. I purchased CK2 as a package deal including Victoria 2, and after playing many joyful hours (probably days) of CK2 I tried Victoria 2. I couldn't stop! Then I played the EU3 demo. Then I purchased HOI2, HOI3, EU:Rome, and I'm like an addict going off the edge into grand strategy! I can't thank PI enough for creating CK2, such an excellent game, and for making it the "gateway drug" for my newfound love of grand strategy.

That said, I feel like I'm in a strange position. As a long time casual strategy gamer (I think compared to PI games, TW games could be considered casual), I love that CK2 was simple/"Fun" enough that I could get the ropes, but similar enough to the other strategy games that I had a springboard from which to jump into Vicky, EU, etc. For example, when I began I would have been overwhelmed if I had to manage resources/trading/a more complex economy. Now, however, I wish there was more depth to the CK2 economy, and more complexity/opportunity.

With regards to the aztec DLC anouncement, I feel similarly. As a fan of a game that plays well and isn't necessarily tied to historical fact (and is "fun"), I am savoring the chance to take on fat stacks of aztecs crashing on the shores of the Kingdom of Ireland. Nonetheless, I fear that this new DLC is going to be divisive and detrimental to PI's honourable reputation and complete dominance of the grand strategy genre.

...but as well all know, all it takes to drop a few bad boy points is time.

This is my noob opinion: for those who scoff at ahistorical aztecs, don't buy it. Paradox Interactive is still the dominant player and benevolent overlord of our grand strategy gaming "fix." For those who look forward to the opportunity to test our mettle against a "fun" fight with no historical context, hack away!

~jk47

 

[WankoStankins]

Aztec DLC is the end of the world. It was foretold in the Elder Scrolls... and when the truth finally dawned... it dawned in Aztec DLC! Goodbye world, December 21st is the Day-o-Doom!

edit: Unless of course the Aztecborn saves us

 

[khedas]

Nonetheless, I fear that this new DLC is going to be divisive and detrimental to PI's honourable reputation and complete dominance of the grand strategy genre.

...but as well all know, all it takes to drop a few bad boy points is time.

This is my noob opinion: for those who scoff at ahistorical aztecs, don't buy it. Paradox Interactive is still the dominant player and benevolent overlord of our grand strategy gaming "fix." For those who look forward to the opportunity to test our mettle against a "fun" fight with no historical context, hack away!

I agree with you 100%, and I sure hope time makes it all go away. Paradox has a reputation for accurate historical simulations that I really don't want tarnished. If it gets bundled with all other game-makers, I won't be able to point to PI games (Ck2 in particular) as ways to "learn through fun".

 

[Nyrael]

With regards to the aztec DLC anouncement, I feel similarly. As a fan of a game that plays well and isn't necessarily tied to historical fact (and is "fun"), I am savoring the chance to take on fat stacks of aztecs crashing on the shores of the Kingdom of Ireland. Nonetheless, I fear that this new DLC is going to be divisive and detrimental to PI's honourable reputation and complete dominance of the grand strategy genre.

Yeah, they will be beaten by... by... nobody.
And I judge people who will stop buying quality DLC (that are in production with mroe resources spent than on this one) just because ONE DLC was not to their tastes.

I agree with you 100%, and I sure hope time makes it all go away. Paradox has a reputation for accurate historical simulations that I really don't want tarnished. If it gets bundled with all other game-makers, I won't be able to point to PI games (Ck2 in particular) as ways to "learn through fun".

"CK2 was good but you now have the ability to buy one add-on that is not historical so don't get it!"

Sounds legit.

 

[Pelarys]

I agree with you 100%, and I sure hope time makes it all go away. Paradox has a reputation for accurate historical simulations that I really don't want tarnished. If it gets bundled with all other game-makers, I won't be able to point to PI games (Ck2 in particular) as ways to "learn through fun".

Well I don't think learning through paradox game is the point though. Do people really do that?

 

[khedas]

Yeah, they will be beaten by... by... nobody.

No, but the game CAN be lumped with other 'medieval' games that are put out by other companies, which don't bear any resemblance to reality at all.

It IS a prestige hit to the game, regardless on how one feels about it.

"CK2 was good but you now have the ability to buy one add-on that is not historical so don't get it!"

Sounds legit.

No, it means that the game will be thought of like the other games (you know, the 'medieval' games where one always plays as a country, where nobles are, at best, a loose title one gives away, where land changes hands by force of arms without any justification, where a King recruits his armies, where religion might not even be a factor...) by those that don't know better, and will no longer be thought of as the best medieval simulator avaliable (which it is).

Well I don't think learning through paradox game is the point though. Do people really do that?

Just to give a few examples, many people - even here in the forums - discovered through CK2 just HOW relevant dynasties and noble houses were in the Middle Ages; that rulers thought of themselves as part of their Houses, that their countries came second. And that a Catholic needed a claim to get through force from another Catholic, instead of just invading. That being "Excommunicated" was a serious problem; what vassal levies were; that marriages were an invaluable political weapon; what was the De Jure system. That it was not just the oldest son that inherited everything, that something like "Gavelkind" laws existed, and so on.

The other 'medieval' games in the market don't do this. Basically, you're a country, you recruit your troops with your resources, and you invade stuff, perhaps with some diplomacy involved.

 

[choco83]

@Khedas : I don't see the point why "people" would change his view about Paradox games just because of one DLC. Just because of armaggedon for Hoi 2 people thinks that Paradox produces gamey indy strat games ? People that are hardcoregamers about history will still be there, just the'll pass this Aztec DLC but will wait for the next one.
The Paradox reputation wont' be bashed by this. Some people may leave the boat but still majority will remain.

 

[Cetan]

I agree with you 100%, and I sure hope time makes it all go away. Paradox has a reputation for accurate historical simulations that I really don't want tarnished. If it gets bundled with all other game-makers, I won't be able to point to PI games (Ck2 in particular) as ways to "learn through fun".

If history was accurate in Crusader Kings II, we would all be speaking an amalgamation of Greek and Arabic, worshipping the Basileus-Caliph of the Fatamidoukas Dynasty.