Personality descriptors - room for improvement?

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It's a minor issue in the scheme of things, but so far the personality descriptors or summaries for characters seem somewhat bland, repetitive, and clunky.

"Adventurer" and "Ravener" for example appear overused since several traits can apparently give these descriptors. "Ravener" seems to come from Gluttonous and Greedy. I think could be either broken up ("Glutton" is an obvious addition) and/or given more stringent requirements (being both Gluttonous and Greedy, for example).

"Absolver" and "Empath" are a bit clumsy. Somebody once pointed out that the latter sounds like it's from Star Trek. Personally, I think something like "Soul" would be more natural instead of "Empath". One could also use "Altruist," but as a more modern term it could seem out of place. "Absolver" might become "Peacemaker," although early on we saw a "Conciliator" descriptor.


In general, I think there's some room for more nouns, especially something more evocative. For example, mixing in animal metaphors could make for some evocative descriptors:

Dove
Lion / Lioness
Mule
Vulture

Although I assume there's a wish to avoid some loaded terms.


The adjectives could also be improved based on what we've seen. One early example was a character described as a "Dishonourable Empath" based on them having both the Deceitful and Compassionate Traits. That is a bit unevocative, I think. Even if we were to change it to "Dishonourable Soul" as suggested above, the problem would still be there.

There could be room for more nuance with adjectival descripors. For example, this combination of a very positive sounding Trait - Compassionate - with a somewhat sinister Trait - Deceitful - could make the character "Well-intentioned" rather than "Dishonourable". So the result could be "Well-Intentioned Soul," which I think gives a much stronger impression of a character.


Of course this depends on how exactly the description system works exactly, Is it like Compliments and Insults in CK2, where the descriptors are directly coded into the Traits? Or is there a separate system where descriptors are defined and given different weights?

I think the former is unlikely based on how the descriptors have been generated so far, but if that is the case, I hope that a more flexible system will be patched in at a later date (there's much higher priorities obviously). If it's the latter, I at least would be willing to mod in new descriptors.
 
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Tukata

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I completely agree with you, and I like your ideas, especially "Soul" instead of "Empath", "Conciliator" instead of "Absolver", and terms that highlight several traits at once. I don't know how to mod but if I did, that would be the first thing I'd change since it seems relatively easy and quick to do.
 
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CocoKitty

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It's a minor issue in the scheme of things, but so far the personality descriptors or summaries for characters seem somewhat bland, repetitive, and clunky.

"Adventurer" and "Ravener" for example appear overused since several traits can apparently give these descriptors. "Ravener" seems to come from Gluttonous and Greedy. I think could be either broken up ("Glutton" is an obvious addition) and/or given more stringent requirements (being both Gluttonous and Greedy, for example).

"Absolver" and "Empath" are a bit clumsy. Somebody once pointed out that the latter sounds like it's from Star Trek. Personally, I think something like "Soul" would be more natural instead of "Empath". One could also use "Altruist," but as a more modern term it could seem out of place. "Absolver" might become "Peacemaker," although early on we saw a "Conciliator" descriptor.


In general, I think there's some room for more nouns, especially something more evocative. For example, mixing in animal metaphors could make for some evocative descriptors:

Dove
Lion / Lioness
Mule
Vulture

Although I assume there's a wish to avoid some loaded terms. Defining a character as a "Pig" for example would probably sound problematic for various reasons.


The adjectives could also be improved based on what we've seen. One early example was a character described as a "Dishonourable Empath" based on them having both the Deceitful and Compassionate Traits. That is a bit unevocative, I think. Even if we were to change it to "Dishonourable Soul" as suggested above, the problem would still be there.

There could be room for more nuance with adjectival descripors. For example, this combination of a very positive sounding Trait - Compassionate - with a somewhat sinister Trait - Deceitful - could make the character "Well-intentioned" rather than "Dishonourable". So the result could be "Well-Intentioned Soul," which I think gives a much stronger impression of a character.


Of course this depends on how exactly the description system works exactly, Is it like Compliments and Insults in CK2, where the descriptors are directly coded into the Traits? Or is there a separate system where descriptors are defined and given different weights?

I think the former is unlikely based on how the descriptors have been generated so far, but if that is the case, I hope that a more flexible system will be patched in at a later date (there's much higher priorities obviously). If it's the latter, I at least would be willing to mod in new descriptors.
i'm not sure about soul, because i feel like it can be interpreted as just person, so i think maybe they can make it an adjective instead (probably empathetic or something), and then make the dishonorable "betrayer", so it will be empathetic betrayer, still kinda clunky since those personality traits don't really seem right together at all, but with your other system where it changes depending on the noun, i think it can work
 
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Ezumiyr

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Animal metaphors is a great idea! It's very medieval. We need craftly foxes! (well, doesn't work as well in english, but in France, Renart was the name of the main character of the Roman de Renart, and it was so popular that renard became the word for "fox" in french - it used to be goupil).

Some other popular animals used to evoke human traits:
Wolf, cruel but easily duped
Rat, low-life, traitor
Donkey, stubborn
Bull, strong and lacking subtlety
Bird, beautiful and precious
etc

The big issue is probably that animal symbolism isn't universal, but I believe that there is still something to do with the most universal ones.
 
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klopkr

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I hope this just ends up a more meticulous and descriptive list of terms expanding over the games life time.

There's definitely room for much more specific descriptors and variety descriptors. I think the most important thing is that they sum up the traits well.
 

Hroppa

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Animal metaphors is a great idea! It's very medieval. We need craftly foxes! (well, doesn't work as well in english, but in France, Renart was the name of the main character of the Roman de Renart, and it was so popular that renard became the word for "fox" in french - it used to be goupil).

Foxes definitely have associations with cunning in English. I think this goes back to Aesop's fables.
 
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Clophiroth

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"Zorro" (fox) is also a metaphor for clever and cunning in Spanish.

Although "Zorra", the female form of fox, means "whore" or "slut". You know, the male animal is cool, the female animal is a way to insult female sexuality, as is standard (Vixen and Bitch also have very different meanings to Fox and Dog...)
 
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Provenance

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"Zorro" (fox) is also a metaphor for clever and cunning in Spanish.

Although "Zorra", the female form of fox, means "whore" or "slut". You know, the male animal is cool, the female animal is a way to insult female sexuality, as is standard (Vixen and Bitch also have very different meanings to Fox and Dog...)

That's why I'd try to avoid "she-wolf" at least.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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Animal metaphors is a great idea! It's very medieval. We need craftly foxes! (well, doesn't work as well in english, but in France, Renart was the name of the main character of the Roman de Renart, and it was so popular that renard became the word for "fox" in french - it used to be goupil).

Some other popular animals used to evoke human traits:
Wolf, cruel but easily duped
Rat, low-life, traitor
Donkey, stubborn
Bull, strong and lacking subtlety
Bird, beautiful and precious
etc

The big issue is probably that animal symbolism isn't universal, but I believe that there is still something to do with the most universal ones.
That's why I'd try to avoid "she-wolf" at least.
English folk stories *just about* still have Renard used as a fox name.

Wolf (in general) also has the meaning and association of being loyal to one's immediate friends and family, and "she-wolf" (or at least *mama wolf*) has an association with a brave woman who will fight to the last to defend her children, and will destroy anyone who dared to threaten them.

It's difficult because animal references vary so much by culture.
 

cybrxkhan

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Culture or religion specific descriptors would be great too
 

Olden Weiss

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Nothing a little modding can't fix, and now you've got me drumming up some ideas...
 

Provenance

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The latest stream seems to have underlined my complaint further. Adventurers, Antagonists, Raveners, and Villains keep popping up. The "Rapacious" descriptor was also fairly common. New descriptors like "Fool" and "Thinker" were definitely overshadowed.

The root cause might be that certain traits are very "CKesque" - Ambitious, Brave, Callous, Sadistic, Vengeful - and those traits might be favoured for characters, especially for historical figures. So it'd be good to distinguish more between characters with those traits.