Personal Event Series: England Surrenders After Vichy

[Ziggyrunner08]

That does it for Holland and Belgium. Too much? Too little?

I have a book called "If Hitler Had Won" that shows a map of Greater Germany according to Nazi propoganda in the mid 1930s. Belgium and Holland are both shown as being a part of Greater Germany, so IMO Germany should annex them if the harsh terms are pressed for.

I really like the events btw!

 

[Brasidas]

Umm, where do Holland or Belgium come into these events? Are you posting in the right thread, Ziggy?

 

[invertigo2004]

In this scenario, the 7 day offset gives a mean of three days for Germany to conquer Ireland. They could have one day, they could have six. It just depends on where the seven-day counter's at when event 900000 fires.

I haven't yet scripted an alternate event for an ai USA, but a human player essentially has 30 days from the beginning of the crisis to load up the troops and have them standing by off the coast of Ireland in the event of a German declaration of war. This should, in a MP game, make the string a more interesting affair, hopefully guaranteeing a military confrontation on the island.

For SP, I was thinking an aiUSA would have the option to immediately deploy troops to Ireland ala Stony Road style. IOW, just remove a certain number of infantry and armored divisions, whisking them away to Dublin or Cork. The only problem with that is I'm now sure if the ai will reinforce them as will undoubtedly be needed, and I don't know how to modify the ai.

By a fait accompli, you mean America intervenes, but too late to save Ireland? That may well happen on its own....I think it should be a stand alone event that checks for certain parts of the previous string, then German control of Ireland, then penalizes the US with more dissent, since their reason for going into a war few wanted (saving Ireland) is no longer viable, and the US exactly in the position it wanted to avoid. Or am I missing your point?

 

[invertigo2004]

Umm, where do Holland or Belgium come into these events? Are you posting in the right thread, Ziggy?

hehe he is, remember this thread was originally for the "England Surrenders After Vichy" series, which does involve Holland and Belgum.

Thanks for the input Ziggy, but I've found there are numerous versions of Hitler's vision for a new Europe, and the one I picked was just one of them. Glad you liked the events, hope you'll try out the Partitioning of England & the Irish Crisis.

 

[Brasidas]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of Germany taking Ireland before the US could declare war in the first place, which would then in turn affect whether it declares war at all. An alternate (AI-only) event, checking the status, could fire if Ireland were attacked. You'd want to check whether Ireland existed. If it did, you'd check if it was in an alliance with Germany rather than whether it was a puppet. A puppet can be released from puppethood into a full ally.

The reason I prefer this is if Ireland gets knocked out in a twelve hour campaign during an MP scenario, there's still an absolute certainty that if Germany invades Ireland the USA gets a chance to join in the rumble. Hell, change the offset to check every day. That still gives a small window for Germany to pull things off, in the face of British opposition (if any) and an American battlegroup just off the coast waiting for him to screw up.

Your idea of checking whether Ireland exists and linking that to a second dissent hit sounds reasonable. The player still gets some sort of pay-off from a blitz campaign.

The HSR "raining men" plan isn't an idea I'm particularly fond of, but it could work. My understanding is that the "= -1" routine with the remove_division command is not selective, so you if you remove five divisions you could be removing five armoured divisions or five militia divisions. So it goes.

 

[Brasidas]

I went back. I'd forgotten about the BeNeLux concessions enough to be totally taken aback by Ziggy. It was always the British partitions and Ireland that interested me in this series.

Looking back, I found the concession of the whole region around Arnhem a bit harsh, btw. Otherwise, it looked pretty good.

 

[invertigo2004]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of Germany taking Ireland before the US could declare war in the first place, which would then in turn affect whether it declares war at all. An alternate (AI-only) event, checking the status, could fire if Ireland were attacked. You'd want to check whether Ireland existed. If it did, you'd check if it was in an alliance with Germany rather than whether it was a puppet. A puppet can be released from puppethood into a full ally.

The reason I prefer this is if Ireland gets knocked out in a twelve hour campaign during an MP scenario, there's still an absolute certainty that if Germany invades Ireland the USA gets a chance to join in the rumble. Hell, change the offset to check every day. That still gives a small window for Germany to pull things off, in the face of British opposition (if any) and an American battlegroup just off the coast waiting for him to screw up.

Your idea of checking whether Ireland exists and linking that to a second dissent hit sounds reasonable. The player still gets some sort of pay-off from a blitz campaign.

The HSR "raining men" plan isn't an idea I'm particularly fond of, but it could work. My understanding is that the "= -1" routine with the remove_division command is not selective, so you if you remove five divisions you could be removing five armoured divisions or five militia divisions. So it goes.

I'm aware of the "-1" downfall, and tend to be more exact in my selection of divisions. Since the game is lovingly logical and orderly in its selection of unit names, I can just go down the list for each type of unit I want, and generally that unit is available. The only problem here is the US ai can be abominably slow at building units, so I'll either have to write a innumerable number of events testing to see what units are available, or simply pick one combination, and if the units didn't exist, well they exist now.

As for the fait accompli...I didn't understand what you meant earlier...so you'd like more delay in the US declaring war...its certainly reasonable and realistic. I think, however, this may give too much of an advantage to the German player, although without testing I'm not entirely sure.

For example, in a MP game, if the German player knows they can give the US player a major dissent hit by going to war with Ireland, I expect they'll push as hard as they can (I would ). The German player already has the advantage of distance and readiness. In the current scenario, if both sides push to war, the US ends up with 23% dissent, Germany with 8%. If the US is forced to wait even a few days after the German DoW on Ireland, it may, as you said, be too late, which would mean an even larger dissent hit if the US declares war anyway, but some dissent regardless at the lost opportunity. As a US player, knowing there may be no chance to salvage Ireland, would you even get involved in the Irish scenario, or just leave well enough alone, take the 5% dissent hit, and wait for another opportunity or for Germany's belligerance to jump? I think making the US wait is realistic, don't get me wrong, I'm just concerned it would make the whole thing too costly for a human player to actually pursue.

On a totally different note, I've just realized that this string is incomplete...it needs separate events for an Irish decision on military access and alliance in the event the US sends no protest. Obviously Ireland would be less likely to resist without hope of American assistance. Back to work for me.

 

[invertigo2004]

i added the aforementioned events for ireland, the new file is here...

http://www.freefilehosting.net/?id=pNv9kqne

or if you already have it, simply add the following events...

event = {
id = 400435
country = IRE
random = no

Trigger = {
event = 400418
event = 400420
NOT = {
event = 400421
war = { country = GER country = USA }
war = { country = GER country = IRE }
}
}

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
offset = 20
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 2000 }

name = "Dublin's Decision"
desc = ""
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "We have no choice but to accept"
ai_chance = 99
command = { type = dissent value = 8 }
command = { type = relation which = GER value = 20 }
command = { type = access which = GER }
command = { type = non_aggression which = IRE where = GER }
command = { type = set_domestic which = interventionism value = 0 }
command = { type = trigger which = 400426 } #End of the Irish Crisis
}
action_b = {
name = "Death before dishonor!"
ai_chance = 1
command = { type = dissent value = 5 }
command = { type = relation which = GER value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = USA value = 50 }
command = { type = trigger which = 400437 } #The Irish Crisis: Ireland Defiant
}
}

event = {
id = 400436
country = IRE
random = no

Trigger = {
event = 400419
event = 400420
NOT = {
event = 400421
war = { country = GER country = USA }
war = { country = GER country = IRE }
}
}

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
offset = 20
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 2000 }

name = "Dublin's Decision"
desc = ""
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "We have no choice but to accept"
ai_chance = 90
command = { type = dissent value = 8 }
command = { type = relation which = GER value = 20 }
command = { type = alliance which = GER }
command = { type = trigger which = 400426 } #End of the Irish Crisis
}
action_b = {
name = "Death before dishonor!"
ai_chance = 10
command = { type = dissent value = 5 }
command = { type = relation which = GER value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = USA value = 50 }
command = { type = trigger which = 400437 } #The Irish Crisis: Ireland Defiant
}
}

event = {
id = 400437
country = GER
random = no

name = "Ireland Defiant"
desc = "The Irish has stood against us. Given the recent attitude of the United States, we cannot simply hope for Ireland to remain neutral any longer. We must secure that island. If America is serious, then we have precious little time to accomplish our task."
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Damn"
command = { type = dissent value = 3 }
command = { type = war which = IRE }
command = { type = relation which = USA value = -100 }
}
}

 

[Brasidas]

I know that as a German player in MP that I would be pushing my belligerance to the floor with puppet releases to avoid the USA getting into the war at all. Barring the planning of a first strike with Japan, the "strict neutrality" option would be my most likely choice.

Stand by for tangent;

As a USA player, I'd probably accept a 50% dissent hit just to get into the action in the early war, unless I was restricting myself to balance the game. If the USA intervenes in 1939 or early 1940, the game is over. The Axis can forget about advancing farther than France. The European Axis can give themselves some faint hope by going after Russia, but it'll be getting free supplies from the USA, massively increasing their production capability.

In the case of a Sealion getting pulled off, there may or may not be a free dow opportunity for the USA, depending upon the mod the players are using. If not, the Irish series you're working on sounds interesting.

Rather than simply avoiding invading the UK early (eg early 1940) because it heralds rapid USA intervention, the Axis could make a call on how to prepare for the inevitable American atlantic island-jumping campaign. If they wanted to push for a stronger, farther-reaching airbase, there's Ireland. They can even produce a decent handful of troops with the manpower boost of Ulster. And (unlike vanilla) its possible to just puppet/ally with them rather than annex-release. Of course, there's the possibility that the US will get to intervene (much?) earlier. This fits with how Axis plans in games that I play often fall apart in MP. You up your belligerance too much, you up American intervention too much or forget about an event, and boom. American intervention. (There are reasons you don't DoW Spain and Sweden!)

American intervention almost guarantees the end of the Axis advance anywhere but Russia (where it is slowed). This is probably something an Axis that has defeated the Home Isles, has Gibraltar, and at least threatens Suez can afford to risk. Lets make the game a bit more interesting, right? (Sidenote: I'd recommend that Greenland and Iceland be transferred to USA in the first round of the Harsh Terms UK peace) But the war's still going to be balanced against the Axis. The RN is still around, a good amount of manpower is tied up guarding the western islands and the IC spent on the planes and ships for Sealion isn't really transferrable to the eastern front. Its still going to be tied up trying to guard against an invasion from Iceland.

Were I the US player in this scenario, I'd say my best bet would be to send an unholy amount of supplies to Russia, letting their full available production go to unit builds, even letting their lines stay on permanent offensive supply.

I'd then make my way up the east and west african coasts, taking on Spain, Egypt-Sudan, and the middle east. Once bases were available on the spanish coasts or inside the med, any garrison savings made by Sealion would be lost, and Germany would be in even worse shape than before it took the British isles.

End tangent.

Through my own experiences, a hefty dissent penalty is appropriate. If the German player screws up and can not pull off an invasion quickly enough to destroy Ireland's resistance, the penalty could certainly be less. Against the AI, the game doesn't need much balancing.

 

[invertigo2004]

As a USA player, I'd probably accept a 50% dissent hit just to get into the action in the early war, unless I was restricting myself to balance the game. If the USA intervenes in 1939 or early 1940, the game is over. The Axis can forget about advancing farther than France. The European Axis can give themselves some faint hope by going after Russia, but it'll be getting free supplies from the USA, massively increasing their production capability.

I've never played MP before, so I was unaware the USA would be that big of a threat. Perhaps the events should be altered to check the date...if Sealion is pulled off quickly in 39 or 40 with no Ostfront, the US is still too isolationist and otherwise unprepared. Perhaps in this situation outright intervention shouldn't be an option for the US player, but instead it should push the policy sliders depending on whether the US wants to issue a protest or not. A later Sealion, say in 41 or 42, conducted without an Ostfront, the US should have the option to jump in the war, but the ai would be unwilling (say 35% intervention, 65% stay out), and either way there's a hefty dissent hit. If there is an Ostfront, then the ai is more willing to intervene.