Permanent province modifiers from vassal missions removed after annexation

Permanent province modifiers from vassal missions removed after annexation

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neldar13

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Hi!

We can watch vassal mission trees now, thx for adding this nice feature. It helps to lead vassal to the bonuses his overlord can use like claims or development. But province modifiers added "until the end of the game" are removed when you annex vassal.

For example, i've played as Burgundy recently and vassalized Provence. Provence has new awesome tree with Develop Provence and Toulon Dockyards missions. Each of them adds great permanent modifier to respective province. But i was disappointed when annexation of Provence cleared these modifiers. Does it work as intended? Have i skipped the reason it should work like it works?

Not sure if i should post it to suggestions.
 

Battlex

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Hi!

We can watch vassal mission trees now, thx for adding this nice feature. It helps to lead vassal to the bonuses his overlord can use like claims or development. But province modifiers added "until the end of the game" are removed when you annex vassal.

For example, i've played as Burgundy recently and vassalized Provence. Provence has new awesome tree with Develop Provence and Toulon Dockyards missions. Each of them adds great permanent modifier to respective province. But i was disappointed when annexation of Provence cleared these modifiers. Does it work as intended? Have i skipped the reason it should work like it works?

Not sure if i should post it to suggestions.
Yes its working as intended, prevents overstacking the modifier
 

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Unfortunately you only get the modifiers if you get them yourself. Only way to get as many as possible to form bunch of countries yourself, like starting Provence and later forming France.
 
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"until the end of the game" never means that literally for modifiers. It's really "until something other than a timer removes the modifier". In this case it's province changing owner but could also be an event or decision. Basically a UI issue; should probably be something like "never expires" but that would still be misunderstood.
 
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TheMeInTeam

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"until the end of the game" never means that literally for modifiers. It's really "until something other than a timer removes the modifier". In this case it's province changing owner but could also be an event or decision. Basically a UI issue; should probably be something like "never expires" but that would still be misunderstood.
Could just say "as long as X owns province"
 

Riukus

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But new trade centers stay after annexation. So +3 in Bavaria and +1 in Croatia for your mighty venice node steering.
 
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But new trade centers stay after annexation. So +3 in Bavaria and +1 in Croatia for your mighty venice node steering.
Centres of trade are in the right hand window, so stick around like how buildings built via mission stick around, so not that surprising
 

jdrou

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Right, CoTs are not regular scripted modifiers, they are a separate mechanic that happens to show an icon in the same list with scripted modifiers.
Note that estuaries, which ARE scripted in event_modifiers, are added in province histories using 'add_permanent_province_modifier' so also aren't removed on province changing owner. (Potentially even those might be removable by event but haven't had any reason to test that.)
 
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TheMeInTeam

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Could just say "as long as X owns province"
But new trade centers stay after annexation. So +3 in Bavaria and +1 in Croatia for your mighty venice node steering.
You don't have to add the suggested language where "until the end of the game" is really true :p.
 
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Battlex

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Right, CoTs are not regular scripted modifiers, they are a separate mechanic that happens to show an icon in the same list with scripted modifiers.
Note that estuaries, which ARE scripted in event_modifiers, are added in province histories using 'add_permanent_province_modifier' so also aren't removed on province changing owner. (Potentially even those might be removable by event but haven't had any reason to test that.)
Estuaries disappearing on conquest would be quite annoying, especially back in the old system
 

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Every modifier is there for certain reason, so ‘until the end of the game’ doesn’t need to mean ‘until the end of the game regardless of situation change’. In this case, the province modifier is given because Provence, which has a specific mission, is an owner of a certain province. Therefore, if Provence becomes not to be an owner, the modifier should be removed.

It should be applied to modifiers related to religion, such as act of unity of Chrisitian. Of course, if a country gets special permanent country modifier from specific mission, then it should be removed after tag switch. Though most of them isn’t removed now.
 

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Every modifier is there for certain reason, so ‘until the end of the game’ doesn’t need to mean ‘until the end of the game regardless of situation change’.
Words have meaning. What is written in the UI should constrain anticipation to what the game will actually do. Not claim one thing and then do something else.

When game says "until the end of game" and makes no further qualifications, it is in fact a bug if the thing in question disappears before the end of the game. Not a major bug in this case, but still a bug in the UI, because when that happens the UI is lying. There are a lot of UI bugs and they vary in severity. They can be pretty annoying or in some cases game changing if taken on faith.
 

Battlex

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Words have meaning. What is written in the UI should constrain anticipation to what the game will actually do. Not claim one thing and then do something else.

When game says "until the end of game" and makes no further qualifications, it is in fact a bug if the thing in question disappears before the end of the game. Not a major bug in this case, but still a bug in the UI, because when that happens the UI is lying. There are a lot of UI bugs and they vary in severity. They can be pretty annoying or in some cases game changing if taken on faith.
It's not a bug because it's saying "until end of game" if conditions are constant. You get price change events which are until end of game, like the spice trade rise and decline
 
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Fine I'll put quote marks around it
My point is that the game does not consistently qualify the phrase. The UI says "until the end of the game", not "until the end of the game contingent on some factor we don't feel like disclosing". "Until the end of the game" is an *unqualified statement*, one does not expect exceptions to the rules unless the game states there are exceptions to the rules.

Here you are adding a qualification that the game simply does not use in most cases, which implies the in-game UI as it currently displays the information is bugged.
 
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sbytheway

Justified and Ancient
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Jan 7, 2009
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Yes its working as intended, prevents overstacking the modifier
That's so sad, I love the permanent modifiers, especially the ones that mark your progress down the more alt-history stuff (ie the summer court in Anjou as England)
Would be nice for other people's modifiers to hang around, or at least the more major ones (eg Toulon Docks yes, the generic commercial buff from the generic trade missions maybe not) - makes the world feel more dynamic!
 
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