• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

ThePHD

Captain
91 Badges
Mar 30, 2012
315
868
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
I will be going from an 8700K @ 4.4ghz to a 5800X3D. I will post some results when I get everything set up later. The 5800X3D is known for being the best CPU for Paradox games. It won't be an extensive benchmark but I hope to get a general idea of how much of a performance gain going from an older CPU to a modern one will give someone. Most tests seem to put the 5800X3D against other modern CPUs.
This is the extremely tl;dr version. The game still slows down but there was a very substantial performance increase. Makes me excited to see what future 3D V-Cache CPUs can do.

3.52

39% faster mid game (2300+)
55% faster end game (2400+)

Overall this is about in line with what i've read about the 5800X3D. I also did my tests with both high and low frequency ram. It barely changed the results at all. I got maybe .5% better results using the faster ram. I might post more details if I have the time. I will also be testing the CPU in other Paradox titles.

edit : End game lag is almost non existent in EU4 and HOI4. It's crazy seeing the end game just fly by with minimal slowdown. The Stellaris end game is by far the worst in terms of how sluggish it feels to play.
 
Last edited:
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:

GnoSIS

Colonel
24 Badges
Jan 27, 2009
845
1.576
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
a few new postings in the last days here, so I'll add my experience:
I don't know why, but in the 3.5 version (latest non-beta) of the game it is now in the year 2571 almost unplayable.
Okay - I play with a big galaxy, and all extensions are on. But no mods.

Contentwise: the awakened empires are done, and the end game crisis also. Oh, and I play as toxoid on the biological path, all species in my empire are fully genetically optimized.
View attachment 892173

I understand that a Ryzen 3700X and a Radeon RX 6700XT with 16 GB RAM is not high-end. But anyhow, I am frustrated. I'm not done with this galaxy, and I have to abandon it just because of performance. Not cool.
Do you have pop growth scale to zero? Please post a save
 

Logros

Private
58 Badges
Jun 8, 2014
10
75
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
This is the extremely tl;dr version. The game still slows down but there was a very substantial performance increase. Makes me excited to see what future 3D V-Cache CPUs can do.

3.52

39% faster mid game (2300+)
55% faster end game (2400+)

Overall this is about in line with what i've read about the 5800X3D. I also did my tests with both high and low frequency ram. It barely changed the results at all. I got maybe .5% better results using the faster ram. I might post more details if I have the time. I will also be testing the CPU in other Paradox titles.

edit : End game lag is almost non existent in EU4 and HOI4. It's crazy seeing the end game just fly by with minimal slowdown. The Stellaris end game is by far the worst in terms of how sluggish it feels to play.
Thanks for this!

I'm curious about the 13900k performance in paradox games, it seems to do relatively well in other simulation games, although the benchmarks I saw still had the 5800x3d crush it in Factorio. But Dwarf Fortress and a couple others, it actually came out above the 3d.

Another thing I was curious about was whether faster memory (DDR5) would cause the gap between 3d cache and non-3d cache CPUs to narrow. Obviously you didn't test DDR5 with the 5800x3d, but with such a minor increase that you saw from memory speed, it seems like the cache will still reign supreme.

I guess I'm still gonna wait on the 7____X3D. Ugh. Really want to just get the upgrade over with.
 

ThePHD

Captain
91 Badges
Mar 30, 2012
315
868
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Thanks for this!

I'm curious about the 13900k performance in paradox games, it seems to do relatively well in other simulation games, although the benchmarks I saw still had the 5800x3d crush it in Factorio. But Dwarf Fortress and a couple others, it actually came out above the 3d.

Another thing I was curious about was whether faster memory (DDR5) would cause the gap between 3d cache and non-3d cache CPUs to narrow. Obviously you didn't test DDR5 with the 5800x3d, but with such a minor increase that you saw from memory speed, it seems like the cache will still reign supreme.

I guess I'm still gonna wait on the 7____X3D. Ugh. Really want to just get the upgrade over with.
I honestly wish I had waited. The performance on this CPU is a great upgrade but I feel like the 7950X3D is going to be absurd if the rumors are true. I'll probably still end up getting one at some point.
 

kane70

Sergeant
16 Badges
Jan 15, 2017
71
66
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I honestly wish I had waited. The performance on this CPU is a great upgrade but I feel like the 7950X3D is going to be absurd if the rumors are true. I'll probably still end up getting one at some point.
jepp, I also plan to upgrade - but because of bigger compute tasks which I regularly need to execute on my environment. Buying such a monster for games like Stellaris sounds like overkill to me. Such games should run well on a mid-sized CPU, ignoring if it's early, mid, or late game.
 

PyroBlade_Knight

Second Lieutenant
18 Badges
Mar 3, 2018
134
12
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
I noticed that the forceful mining drone expansion fleets got stuck in one of my games. After wiping out all the barges, the game sped up significantly. Not sure if this is a known thing.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

Logros

Private
58 Badges
Jun 8, 2014
10
75
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
jepp, I also plan to upgrade - but because of bigger compute tasks which I regularly need to execute on my environment. Buying such a monster for games like Stellaris sounds like overkill to me. Such games should run well on a mid-sized CPU, ignoring if it's early, mid, or late game.
I'd agree if it was just Stellaris - but I play several paradox games, and it's also been a recurring theme in other games I've played for many years. WoW, especially with lots of UI add-ons, benefits a ton from the X3D. HoI4 starts chugging late game, especially with ExpertAI mod. CK3 was super laggy in some late game scenarios - people made a population control mod to delete insignificant characters for it. I can't imagine whats gonna happen with Vic3s pop system :). MOBAs (DotA) which I play gets a ton of value from it.

If it was only one game bottlenecking I'd completely agree. I would say it's a majority of my playtime though that has massive gains from the X3Ds. They benefit alot of more mainstream games like regular FPS' and stuff too, but I think anyone considering a somewhat specialized CPU like these should make sure they're doing it because it greatly benefits a majority of what they play and likely will in the future, for the life of that PC/CPU.

Or if it's just not alot of money to them and they judge it worth it :)
 

rubert

Major
71 Badges
Dec 31, 2010
744
1.125
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
Sorry if this has been asked before, but is there any good big save file with lots of pops etc. for some ~recent patch I could use to test and compare late game performance? Search found some save files for older versions.

I am soon upgrading from 3800X to 5800X3D and I'd be somewhat interested to see how much it improves things.
 

Workiwork

Sergeant
Feb 17, 2022
60
177
Sorry if this has been asked before, but is there any good big save file with lots of pops etc. for some ~recent patch I could use to test and compare late game performance? Search found some save files for older versions.

I am soon upgrading from 3800X to 5800X3D and I'd be somewhat interested to see how much it improves things.
for some mod test i did i looked into the bug section. of course bugged saves are not perfect but if its not game breaking stuff it is somewhat helpfull.
 

rubert

Major
71 Badges
Dec 31, 2010
744
1.125
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
Thanks for the tip. I opted to run observer game myself on 3.5. I'll try to remember to post the save game later during the week when it is bit more developed. Not entirely sure what kind of settings would be the most demanding.

I chose huge galaxy, 2* habitable planets, no crisis, grand admiral, 0.15 pop growth scaling (if I remember right, will need to double check it), xeno-compatibility enabled, 25ish empires, 0.5 tech/tradition cost to speed things up a bit.

edit: I could have reduced the pop limits further but that is around the same setting I normally play in Huge galaxy so I felt it was suitable for my personal testing. And given how many pops empires have managed to create in this observe game I think I might limit it in the future...

1667248287863.png
 
Last edited:

GuildenSpur

Major
53 Badges
Jun 8, 2016
706
464
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
I posted in this thread a while back when I got the 5800x3d and I can play Stellaris again on huge galaxies with lot's of empires without getting annoyed. To me, the 5800x3d was a worthwhile investment. I also have 32g memory as I like mods and when playing past 2400, the game can use a lot of memory especially if you save/load games.
 

rubert

Major
71 Badges
Dec 31, 2010
744
1.125
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
See next post for the save game used for the test. Game version 3.5.3 without mods. Settings used in the spoiler below. I considered using the more absurb settings mentioned in the previous dev diary but opted for more "realistic" settings I might actually use for my real game. Plus I don't think I have will to keep the game running to 2700.

The current year is 2331 and I felt the game had mostly stagnated. Galaxy has 37 262 pops - so not the largest game I have heard of but I'd say pretty large.

edit: if people want me to run it even more I can do that as well, though not sure how much worse the game speed would become. Let me know.

Load the game, open console and type observe to switch out to the poor starter MegaCorp.

  • 3.5.3 - no mods.
  • Huge Elliptical
  • 30 AI empires (some were premade one including Imperial Fiefdom)
  • 15 Advanced AI empires
  • 5 Fallen Empires
  • Marauders off
  • Tech/Tradition cost 0.5x
  • Habitable worlds 3.5x
  • Primitive Civilizations 2x
  • Crisis off
  • Mid- and endgame year 2250 and 2300.
  • Grand Admiral
  • Difficulty Adjusted AI modifiers On (I thiink these were bugged in 3.5.3?)
  • AI aggressiveness normal
  • Empire Placement: Clusters
  • Advanced Neighbours: On
  • Hyperlane, Gateway and Wormole: 1x
  • 2 guaranteed habitable worlds
  • Caraveneers, L-Gates, Xeno-Compatibility On
  • Logistic Growth Ceiling 1.5x
  • Growth Required Scaling 0.1x
 
Last edited:

rubert

Major
71 Badges
Dec 31, 2010
744
1.125
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
Sorry about double post, but I just finished my really quick and dirty comparison of AMD Ryzen 3800X and 5800X3D in Stellaris. The exact save game used for the tests is attached to this post.
  • 3800X completed 98 days in 70 seconds, 1,4 days/second.
  • 5800X3D completed ~144,25 days in 70 seconds, ~2,06 day/second
  • Increase of 47%
I suspect slightly longer test would have increased the difference a bit as there a noticeable slowdown after unpausing the loaded game.
  • Post above lists the game settings for the save. I progressed the game few months forward so that I could get the end of year to the test too without making it overly long.
  • Game was switched to observer mode using console and galaxy map before starting the test. Camera was not moved after exiting to the galaxy map.
  • Stellaris was restarted after each test.
  • Each test was 70 seconds long. I was planning doing bit longer tests, but I got a brainfart while doing tests on 3800X and ended up with shorter version as I really didn't want switch back to 3800X.
  • Each CPU was tested 5 times.
  • System used was Asus Prime X570-P motherboard, 32 GB of RAM (3200 Mhz, exact timings evade me), Radeon RX6600, Windows 10 21H2. Motherboard BIOS firmware and AMD CHipset drivers were updated to the latest prior to tests.
 

Attachments

  • benchmark.sav
    16,6 MB · Views: 0
  • 1
Reactions: