Penalty for owning a land within duchy being a king

[Simonwizard]

Hello,

can someone explain to me the mechanic behind the penalty: being a king and owning a duchy I have few lands - so my vassal has got a piece of land within the same duchy. In result I'm gaining a penalty as I owe the title my vassal has a "claim" to just because he was given by my grace a piece of land.

There are duchies with 7-8 de iure lands and it is sometimes difficult to keep the entire duchy without sharing some less important lands with vassals. Let's say sometimes I'd like to have few lands in different duchies but still I want to be a duke. How the mechanic looks at it: I should give the duchy title to my vassal and be his subordinate being his king at the same time?

 

[YellowPress]

Your count vassals want to be ruled by a duke not a king, the opinion penalty will help them join schemes to stop you being their overlord, but you can just take the opinion penalty at face value, same with how you can comfortably have 4 duchies when the too many duchies penalty hits at 2 if you have sufficient opinion bonuses

 

[Yourss]

I believe the penalty for holding land in your vassal's duchy is worse than the penalty for them being a count in one of your duchies, so while giving them the duchy title might give a short opinion boost, it will cause a long term problem.

In terms of power, random counts in your duchies don't have much. So for factions, they will mostly be a non-issue.

 

[Simonwizard]

Your count vassals want to be ruled by a duke not a king, the opinion penalty will help them join schemes to stop you being their overlord, but you can just take the opinion penalty at face value, same with how you can comfortably have 4 duchies when the too many duchies penalty hits at 2 if you have sufficient opinion bonuses

But what in case I'm a king and a Duke of the duchy? Still penalty, although a count is ruled by a de iure Duke which is at the same time a king.

 

[YellowPress]

But what in case I'm a king and a Duke of the duchy? Still penalty, although a count is ruled by a de iure Duke which is at the same time a king.

Because youre his king, thats it

 

[Simonwizard]

Because youre his king, thats it

So being a highest authority disables me per se from being a middle authority, still higher than the count authority that questions me? Does it make any sense to you?

What's the reason behind the mechanic? Why King cannot be a Duke at the same time, if he doesn't owe entire duchy?

 

[Yourss]

But what in case I'm a king and a Duke of the duchy? Still penalty, although a count is ruled by a de iure Duke which is at the same time a king.

All rulers have a negative modifier for their liege. This helps makes factions and internal strife happen. You can try to minimize the penalties, but you can't get rid of them. As with other unavoidable negatives, they need to be outweighed by positives or worked around.

 

[Secuter]

Because the game makes little sense, and its internal logic works in loops that defies logic.

It doesn't make sense at any point that the count is mad at the king because he is not the holder of the duchy. It's the logic of a small child:
"I want to be ruled by a duke"
- You do understand that it actually changes nothing in our relationship?
"I want to be ruled by a duke!!!"

The hierarchies of the game is rigid. In reality, most of Europe didn't have dukes, and the parts that did, didn't necessarily have any more power than than their neighboring counts or barons. Normandy and Brittany was able to argue that they should be duchies because they were rulers of a "separate" people, distinct from their French counterparts. I'm not, of course, saying that titles didn't matter. The Habsburg invention of "Archduchy" of Austria perfectly underlines that they mattered greatly. While they did matter CK3 makes it too rigid.

Moreover, no duke was really able to claim that a count should serve him directly, rather than the count serve the king because of some ancient de-jure law that says so. The count has an arrangement with the king, that's it. Honestly, the de-jure duchies shouldn't be as strict in the rules, and the king really shouldn't want many large vassals. Instead he should want them weak and fractured.

If that count of yours wasn't an AI and decided to meta, then he'd want the duke title because that would really be his only way of keeping his lands intact. There is currently no game play for a count, and you should always want to move towards being at least a duke.

 

[Slow Bathroom]

Opinion barely matters there's no reason to worry about it

 

[Simonwizard]

Ok, so it doesn't make sense not only for me, just a game mechanic. Thanks everybody.

 

[Greifental]

It makes sort of sense in regard that the game is implying the counts an imminent urge to be a duke or as much independent as possible themselves = a basic dissatisfaction against their duke. So it gives the opinion malus. With ambitious it's even worse whereas content, humble, trusting, low taxes/levies and/or low crown authority neutralizes it.