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blackdragonbird

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13 Badges
Mar 18, 2012
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Information​

When reporting a crash, stability or performance problems, please use the Report a Crash button on the earlier screen​

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Required​

Summary​

Pedestrians cross street without crosswalks

Steps to reproduce​

In some road intersections or nodes, pedestrians cross the street, even when you have built an overpass to allow them to go over the traffic and removed the crosswalks.

Expected Result​

Expected pedestrians to use the pedestrian bridges I built to allow traffic to flow more easily.

Actual Result​

Some pedestrians use the bridge, others still cross the street even after removing the crosswalks.

Game Version​

1.0.12f1

Affected Feature​

  • Gameplay

Platform​

  • Steam

Additional Information​

Additional Information​

One of the intersections where it's easier to see is the one that is visible right after you load the save.

Save Game​

View attachment Pedestrians_Crossing.cok

Other Attachments​

View attachment Pedestrians_Crossing.cok

 
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Hello there! The present is a design choice and not a bug: some cases are acceptable and cannot be fully helped with. If you have any questions about it, don't hesitate to ask about it on the main forum for the game.
 
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Seems it needs to implement priority tag for overpassing pedestrian segment and similar community assets. So pathfinding will prioretize such bridges more.
 
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Hello there! The present is a design choice and not a bug: some cases are acceptable and cannot be fully helped with. If you have any questions about it, don't hesitate to ask about it on the main forum for the game.

Errm excuse me, it may be fine if pedestrians occassionaly cross the street but the issue is that on some busy intersections there will be hundreds of pedestrians crossing the street, bringing traffic to a halt.

I am all for the little exception from the rule, but please look into the numbers of how often it happens.
 
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Errm excuse me, it may be fine if pedestrians occassionaly cross the street but the issue is that on some busy intersections there will be hundreds of pedestrians crossing the street, bringing traffic to a halt.

I am all for the little exception from the rule, but please look into the numbers of how often it happens.
Agree.

Especially since for me the pedestrians will even cross the intersection if there is a traffic light... there is literally no obvious way to get busy intersections free of pedestrians.
 
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Hello there! The present is a design choice and not a bug: some cases are acceptable and cannot be fully helped with. If you have any questions about it, don't hesitate to ask about it on the main forum for the game.
Honestly, this design needs to change. We need to control where pedestrians cross, end of.
 
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Please change the status of "by design" to "needs improvement"...

This is poor design that needs to be redesigned, so it meets "user expectation", not "developer expectations". We paid for the game!

If people crossed open-roads freely, at this same frequency, it wouldn't be acceptable. People, frequently, crossing roads intersections, which is NOT a frequent "real world action", where safe crossing has been "removed", is totally unacceptable. In addition to the other statement and fact that there are "safe provisions" supplied, which are being totally ignored by the majority of pedestrians.

They still favor the "illegal" crossing, at the unmarked location, over the "safe legal crossing", which is nearly equal in distance.

The prior game treated pedestrian crossings as "Park elements", so they were more appealing to use than a sidewalk or cross-walk. Perhaps you should add that feature back to the pedestrian paths. Clearly, it is not present in this version of the game. Pedestrians use created pedestrian paths in a much lower frequency than standard sidewalks and "streets".

An occasional jay-walker is fine... Usually they DON'T cross at intersections. They cross at "Safe" locations in the road, when it is "safe to cross". These pedestrians are favoring the intersection, and favoring unsafe times to cross, directly in front of traffic. At the least, since they are "jay walking", they should be "yielding to cars". (That should trigger the "favoring" of the "non-yield required pedestrian path", as being "faster" or "better". (Especially since we are being forced to make crazy long connections to get people across a road with these insane incline requirements of pedestrian paths and lack of stairs and real pedestrian crossings.)

10 meters high to cross a road, is unusually high. Bridges are usually only 14-16 FEET, which is 4.8 meters high. 10 meters is about 30 feet, which is higher than most peoples houses! A standard house is only about 16 feet high, for a one story house. If we only had to raise the "standard" of 5 meters high, to cross a road, our walkways would not need such a long "ramp", to reach the sky-walk, that can span over a whole house! Just to cross the roads.
 
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I for one agree that this should be reconsidered.

Like in CS1, if you have a lot of peds clogging up the traffic in an intersection.... you could remove the cross walk and use a ped path to circumvent them over the intersection.

You may think this is a natural game mechanic, but this is a GAME where we HAVE TO be able to control the peds so we can manage traffic better. There are some places in the the real world where crossing a street is forbidden.

So, for sake of us managing bad traffic in intersections we need the option to keep peds off an intersection and force them to take another root.

#1 thing a programming company MUST always do is is provide options to the user. If you restrict options people will not like the game... thus less sales.
And if insisting on keeping this and making users deal with it is just showing the community that user input doesn't matter.

I used to be a programmer and work in PR marketing... I suggest you seriously think about the decisions you make. This game is not for you, but users.
You made it for us... right?!
 
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Hello there! The present is a design choice and not a bug: some cases are acceptable and cannot be fully helped with. If you have any questions about it, don't hesitate to ask about it on the main forum for the game.

I would like this behavior explained please.

crosswalks.jpg
 
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I mean, if I had the choice between walking across 4 lanes of a roundabout and walking up what looks like a 15-20% grade walkway. I'll take the 4 lanes of traffic.
Not when cars are racing through you wouldn't! In real life you wait....and wait.....and wait till you got annoyed enough to find a different place to cross when the crossing place it that busy.

I drive through a very busy city in rush hour to get to work, I never see this level of craziness from the pedestrians. In real life city designers have more options, such as a traffic light stage that allows all pedestrians to cross (like when you see walls of people walking towards each other). Pedestrians do NOT walk out in front of moving cars! they will indeed use bridges where they are available. This game mechanic needs to change as when you get to a certain population size and density (about 120k in my case) there is no amount of good road design (including one way routes, ring roads, you name it), pedestrian bridges and public transport that can save the player from this highly unrealistic level of annoying behavior's leading to always having traffic problems no matter what you do.

This might be developer expectation but it's not player expectation and it's the players that are paying for the game, so fix it!
 
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I agree that this needs to be changed. I also think that because it's working as designed, it's not a bug. So complaining about it here doesn't change anything, that's what the suggestions forum is for.
 
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Hi everyone. Thank you for the feedback on this. It would be super helpful if you could also attach screenshots of the situations where your citizens are crossing the road despite you having removed the crosswalks. We expect that there are always going to be some cases where they do not follow your instructions, but we want to make sure it isn't happening more than we expect it to.
 
Hi everyone. Thank you for the feedback on this. It would be super helpful if you could also attach screenshots of the situations where your citizens are crossing the road despite you having removed the crosswalks. We expect that there are always going to be some cases where they do not follow your instructions, but we want to make sure it isn't happening more than we expect it to.
Thank you for your reply. I would attach a screen shot but it would look much the same as already posted screen shots, an unused pedestrian bridge over a road that has a bunch of pedestrians on it.

Yes, like in real life there will always be *some* pedestrians with a death wish. However, in real life pedestrians have the full processing power of a human brain to work out when to cross, these more reckless individuals will wait for a gap in traffic which they can see is long enough for them to cross without any vehicle having to slow down, but sims can't calculate that gap timing (even if they could I imagine performance suffering a lot), so they just barge across in front of a moving vehicle.

I drive to work in the center of a major UK city and I have never had to slow down for a pedestrian just randomly crossing the road at any time they like. They will use a light controlled zebra crossing (which we should be able to place) or pedestrian bridges or wait for a long enough gap, they will not run across when there is busy traffic and cause traffic jams. But the game running on a super computer cannot compete with multiple human brains working together. This disparity between in game behavior and real life behavior makes this a bug in my eyes, not expected behavior and more importantly, not fun! So I think there needs to be more conceits from the devs, possibly forcing the use of pedestrian bridges where available.

Compounding the issue is a lack of options given to us players. We absolutely need to be able to customize the sequence of traffic lights. We NEED a traffic light sequencer option in the road fix tools menu. Maybe up to 8 sequence steps can be configured by the player for each traffic light junction, allowing us to set the order in which approaches to the junction the lights turn green, the duration of each step and pedestrian crossings should also be selectable, so if we choose, there can be step which just allows all the pedestrian crossings.

Also, there should be freely placeable, light controlled pedestrian crossings, allowing us to move the pedestrian crossing points further down the street away from the busy road junctions. typically they would stay green until a pedestrian wants to cross. They will wait until the lights go red for a certain time to cross the street. The crossing will then go back to green for a minimum time before being usable by another pedestrian. These crossing may be set to 10 seconds for them to cross then 20 until it can be used again, but they are also configurable by the traffic light sequencer.

These options should be in the base game. The fact that cims cannot compete with real life human brain processing power when crossing the street leads to unwanted, unexpected and unrealistic behavior, which I see a bug. But by giving us these options, it allows the player to make more decisions on behalf of the cim pedestrians which in the end will make for a better game experience, allow us to do something about bad traffic (now we can't do anything when pedestrians hold everything up) and it will make it more realistic. Pedestrians should wait till it is safe to cross the street if they are given a safer option.
 
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@allanp11 Is your situation also next to a roundabout or is it a different kind of intersection? Screenshots are ideal here, even if they're similar, because it helps us determine if it's happening in all sorts of situations or a specific few.
 
@allanp11 Is your situation also next to a roundabout or is it a different kind of intersection? Screenshots are ideal here, even if they're similar, because it helps us determine if it's happening in all sorts of situations or a specific few.
Hey @co_avanya , I've attached a screenshot which demonstrates this issue perfectly.

The subway station feeds both a bus station, and a (large number of) underground parking lots. The aim was for a "park and ride" kind of system... it sort of works, minus the issue discussed here.

Light green = best route from subway to the bus station.
Light blue = best route from subway to parking.
Dark green = best route from bus station to parking (on a dedicated path, avoiding roads apart from 2 crossings, one off screen)
Red Circle/Line = a crossing was present here, I removed, added, removed, added, removed trying to discourage crossing here. I left it off for ages in this save and it's not taken any effect with pathfinding and they connect between bus station and subway using this "ghost" crossing instead.

FYI, left hand traffic is on (I'm in the UK, so thats a given) incase that makes any difference, but the main roads demonstrated are 1 way.
 

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@allanp11 Is your situation also next to a roundabout or is it a different kind of intersection? Screenshots are ideal here, even if they're similar, because it helps us determine if it's happening in all sorts of situations or a specific few.
Here is a screen shot of some people running across despite an alternate path being provided. It's a longer path but it's not possible to make a shorter path than directly across the road, so cims should be more tolerant of longer paths. Connecting a pedestrian path directly to the roundabout also causes the roundabout to go wonky and give clipping errors, making the paths even longer. So they are running right in front of speeding trucks, people don't do that in real life:
20231110123803_1.jpg


This is where I think it would be realistic, where there is no cars coming:

20231110123240_1.jpg


That's not so bad, but here's a busy junction:

20231110123429_1.jpg


It's only one or two sims running across the road at a time, but it's enough to have a permanent traffic issue here that I can't do anything about. Related to this but not quite the same, you can also see that not all lanes are being utilized as just down the road they are waiting till they get too close to the junction before changing to the correct lane, blocking all other traffic. So now, due to pedestrians crossing, we get situations like this:

20231110123622_1.jpg


The truck turning left is the one and only vehicle that turns during this green light stage due to crossing pedestrians. There is no place for a pedestrian bridge due to the location of the city hall and surrounding buildings, sometimes a pedestrian bridge just isn't possible. Besides, having a pedestrian bridge at every single junction is not realistic and looks ugly. However, this reduces the flow of traffic to only 2 or 3 vehicles per minute, especially when all 5 lanes of a one way street is filled further down by people wanting to turn left (due to the other bug of them changing lanes at the last second). This may not be a bug, but the player having the ability to create a custom traffic light sequence (including being able to select pedestrian crossings as part of that sequence) is something that is so needed that it really feels like a bug for it to not be there in the base game, it feels missing, it's not something that should be left to the modders/future DLC and not fun at all.
 
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@co_avanya I've got another example, I've taken screenshots of the entire road, demonstrating the connection points on either side and the flat straight path running alongside the road they really shouldn't be crossing on.
The has a highway joining it so naturally I want to keep people away from the highways.
 

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@co_avanya

The problem with pedestrians jaywalking is this; Regardless if it is 1 jaywalking or 100 crossing legally at a zebra crossing, it causes a massive bottleneck with vehicle traffic, which hinders traffic flow no differently in either situation. Theres no benefit removing the crossing because the outcome is the same for the player.

With illegal U-turns, it again causes a bottleneck in traffic. The ability to block right turns, left turns, is the player mitigating traffic flow issues. If the game makes its own overriding rules, its removes the element of control from the player.

Its better to let the player have absolute control in the rules of traffic flow in my opinion otherwise it breaks the ability of the player to manipulate the world to problem solve.

I understand jaywalking, illegal u-turns and red light running as being a 'feature' in CS2. Im not sure if its a good fit within a simulation game where the player is GOD sculpting their network layout and optimizing traffic flow.
 
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Hi everyone. Thank you for the feedback on this. It would be super helpful if you could also attach screenshots of the situations where your citizens are crossing the road despite you having removed the crosswalks. We expect that there are always going to be some cases where they do not follow your instructions, but we want to make sure it isn't happening more than we expect it to.
Here
 
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