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Susan1972

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Jun 14, 2021
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Why is it, when faced with an unwinnable war, the enemy gets to take everything you have if you offer to peace out straight away and just give them what they wanted?

Is this some dense commentary on persistence or is just the game's way of saving you 45 minutes to reach the same conclusion?
 

Nostalgium

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If you send an "offer peace" offer, the AI will demand what they want from you in the war. Even if you are winning the war, and send an offer peace, they will send you a peace offer they would like to give you: You will always get more if you manually send your demands, and you will always lose less if you manually send your suggestion. Suggesting an offer right at the start of the war means the offer sent will have to overcome the AI's modifier from war exhaustion, which is likely low or zero, any length of war modifiers, etc etc, so the early offers have to be really big to make the AI peace out early.

If you're the war leader, offering peace early essentially means you're surrendering without a fight, so the AI will try to grab all of what it wants. It declared the war because it's confident it can get it anyway, after all - why shouldn't it take the maximum of what it thinks you're willing to give? So it's neither of your two suggestions; it's simply the result of a nation having untouched armies, untouched lands, and a high willingness to fight on.
 
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Susan1972

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Jun 14, 2021
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It you're the war leader, offering peace early essentially means you're surrendering without a fight, so the AI will try to grab all of what it wants.
All well and good. I'm playing Britain now. I have almost nothing on the continent , 5 crown colonies in North America and extensive holdings in the Kongo area.

Spain declared on me over a colony in Australia. It's a hopeless battle with 3:1 odds against me. If I bail, Spain gets all my crown colonies all my territory in Africa and I lose Ireland anr Scotland. And a boatload of money, trade power and wat reps.

I'm fine if the game wants to treat an immediate surrender as 100% war score but their demands far exceed 100%.
 

YellowPress

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All well and good. I'm playing Britain now. I have almost nothing on the continent , 5 crown colonies in North America and extensive holdings in the Kongo area.

Spain declared on me over a colony in Australia. It's a hopeless battle with 3:1 odds against me. If I bail, Spain gets all my crown colonies all my territory in Africa and I lose Ireland anr Scotland. And a boatload of money, trade power and wat reps.

I'm fine if the game wants to treat an immediate surrender as 100% war score but their demands far exceed 100%.
Manually offer the peacedeal yourself, that doesnt sound possible
Why is it, when faced with an unwinnable war, the enemy gets to take everything you have if you offer to peace out straight away and just give them what they wanted?

Is this some dense commentary on persistence or is just the game's way of saving you 45 minutes to reach the same conclusion?
You should be able to offer full money and war reps day 1 to get them to peace out, I found that happened alot this patch with ai not taking lands
 

Nostalgium

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I'm fine if the game wants to treat an immediate surrender as 100% war score but their demands far exceed 100%.
Literally impossible, for you and the AI. The AI here can have access to several things which reduce warscore cost, such as Diplomacy Ideas, policies, maybe monuments, and high Absolutism, depending on when in the game it is. Colonies frequently cost very little to demand, and high Admin Efficiency (from Granada's monument and high absolutism, for example) will make them virtually free. And unless you've been doing heavy development of Scotland and Ireland, that's also true for those territories. If you're using Suggest Offer from the peace negotiation window, you can see the total warscore you are offering and which territory contributes which cost: Go over them and count up the percentages, and chances are you'll find them not exceeding 100%.

Some screenshots of the peace deal would also help, BTW, since we're left guessing as to the situation you and Spain are in.
 

Susan1972

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Literally impossible, for you and the AI. The AI here can have access to several things which reduce warscore cost, such as Diplomacy Ideas, policies, maybe monuments, and high Absolutism, depending on when in the game it is. Colonies frequently cost very little to demand, and high Admin Efficiency (from Granada's monument and high absolutism, for example) will make them virtually free. And unless you've been doing heavy development of Scotland and Ireland, that's also true for those territories. If you're using Suggest Offer from the peace negotiation window, you can see the total warscore you are offering and which territory contributes which cost: Go over them and count up the percentages, and chances are you'll find them not exceeding 100%.

Some screenshots of the peace deal would also help, BTW, since we're left guessing as to the situation you and Spain are in.
I really wish I'd had the presence of mind to screenshot it. It will happen again, eventually.
 

YellowPress

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Literally impossible, for you and the AI. The AI here can have access to several things which reduce warscore cost, such as Diplomacy Ideas, policies, maybe monuments, and high Absolutism, depending on when in the game it is. Colonies frequently cost very little to demand, and high Admin Efficiency (from Granada's monument and high absolutism, for example) will make them virtually free. And unless you've been doing heavy development of Scotland and Ireland, that's also true for those territories. If you're using Suggest Offer from the peace negotiation window, you can see the total warscore you are offering and which territory contributes which cost: Go over them and count up the percentages, and chances are you'll find them not exceeding 100%.

Some screenshots of the peace deal would also help, BTW, since we're left guessing as to the situation you and Spain are in.
Colonialism cb has 75% cost for colonies, but 125% cost for everything else iirc, or mightve been ae
 
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Nostalgium

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Colonialism cb has 75% cost for colonies, but 125% cost for everything else iirc, or mightve been ae
You are correct - except it's even less for colonies; only 25% cost - but depending on when you are in the game, 25% increase in cost (which is what 125% is, as 100% is baseline cost) is peanuts compared to what you get from ideas, admin efficiency and some monuments. Diplomatic Ideas alone reduce it by 20%, meaning you're at a 5% increase for non-colonial land. If they also have, say, 20% Admin Efficiency, they will still get all non-colonial land for 85% of base cost. And in the late-game, 20% is extremely conservative; many nations will have significantly more than that.
 
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YellowPress

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I think it's a decent mechanic - it makes you have to fight your losing wars. Even if you can't win, by holding your ground you can get away with a -40% peace deal instead of -100%.
Which means you'll have actually lost manpower, ducats, generals in the process, suffered devastation and WE meaning more at risk of losing the next one or a rebellion getting a bit further ahead rather than having stacks parked in offendening provinces 5 months beforehand
 

nobodyinparticular

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Which means you'll have actually lost manpower, ducats, generals in the process, suffered devastation and WE meaning more at risk of losing the next one or a rebellion getting a bit further ahead rather than having stacks parked in offendening provinces 5 months beforehand
It can still be worth it - last time I lost a war was when playing Kazan with a weak alliance network and I got declared on by Muscovy. By engaging their + vassal armies on flatlands I was able to do quite some damage, but also burned through my manpower in the process. I ended up having to surrender Ryazan's lands (I had made them my vassal, and thus I already popped the missions to get claims on Muscovy's lands) and that was it. I got some revanchism despite not losing any of my own lands, and the truce bought me enough time to expand further so I was the one to declare on them next war and win.
 
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