Peace Negotiations and Puppet release - Vicky 2 needs improvement here!

[Otacon]

Hey,

One very annoying thing about Victoria 1 was the peace negotiation regarding territorial changes. This tiny list where you had to scroll and search for every province.. it took hours!

So please, just make peace talks like this: You offer a tribute? Simply click on the provinces you want to include in your peace offer directly on the map, they will get some kind of diagonal stripes or something to indicate that you've already clicked on them and when the enemy accepts, the marked provinces are gone. Same goes for the other direction, if you demand a tribute, click on the enemy provinces on the world map and they will automatically add to your list of demands. Nice, eh?

Second thing which could use some improvement is the creation of puppets. While basically this is a good system, it should work more like the peace system i've talked about. Once you click on the state you wish to create, the old style colorization of the map appears and shows you the purposed new borders. But if you don't like them, you can just click on any of your provinces to secede them to the new puppet and vice versa, if you click on an already marked province it will stay within your country even if its a core of the puppet.

For example, look at the very nice nation of Prussia. From time to time it could happen in Vicky, that the would fight against the very evil Russians and decide to free the Polish people from Russian control! Now they might just want to create Poland - but of course they don't want to give half their east to them, because they may be nice, but not that nice!

 

[Vivern]

Yeah, Vicky needs this!

 

[Alerias]

Whilst I agree that this would have been very nice to have in Vicky 1, theyre going a pretty different way with "War Goals", described in a previous dev diary, this time around.

Essentially youll have to decide which provinces you want before the war is over and wont get the possibility to demand extra provinces, unless you also make them part of your Goals. But if you do, and fail to capture them, you get penalties and your people look at the war as a failure.

I suspect itll make expansion through warfare harder, especially coupled with the greater amount of provinces this time around.

 

[Sovereign]

Hey,

One very annoying thing about Victoria 1 was the peace negotiation regarding territorial changes. This tiny list where you had to scroll and search for every province.. it took hours!

So please, just make peace talks like this: You offer a tribute? Simply click on the provinces you want to include in your peace offer directly on the map, they will get some kind of diagonal stripes or something to indicate that you've already clicked on them and when the enemy accepts, the marked provinces are gone. Same goes for the other direction, if you demand a tribute, click on the enemy provinces on the world map and they will automatically add to your list of demands. Nice, eh?

Second thing which could use some improvement is the creation of puppets. While basically this is a good system, it should work more like the peace system i've talked about. Once you click on the state you wish to create, the old style colorization of the map appears and shows you the purposed new borders. But if you don't like them, you can just click on any of your provinces to secede them to the new puppet and vice versa, if you click on an already marked province it will stay within your country even if its a core of the puppet.

For example, look at the very nice nation of Prussia. From time to time it could happen in Vicky, that the would fight against the very evil Russians and decide to free the Polish people from Russian control! Now they might just want to create Poland - but of course they don't want to give half their east to them, because they may be nice, but not that nice!

I agree with part of what you say, click on map to select provinces for a peace, or even just highlight on the map the provinces that are proposed in the peace offer.

But although it might be nice to be able to create puppets with provinces that are not a puppets core, I don't think there should be any choice for provinces that are the puppets cores... it's all about balancing off factors, lose the cores but gain a puppet, or forgo the puppet and keep the cores?

Having said all that if highlighting provinces selected for peace deals isn't already in the game then I suspect it's too late.

 

[Sovereign]

Whilst I agree that this would have been very nice to have in Vicky 1, theyre going a pretty different way with "War Goals", described in a previous dev diary, this time around.

Essentially youll have to decide which provinces you want before the war is over and wont get the possibility to demand extra provinces, unless you also make them part of your Goals. But if you do, and fail to capture them, you get penalties and your people look at the war as a failure.

I suspect itll make expansion through warfare harder, especially coupled with the greater amount of provinces this time around.

Ah yes, good point but still, lets see territorial war-goals on the map, not just a list of province names. I wonder if you can choose provinces for puppets as war goals... probably not.

 

[unmerged(164401)]

the OP's first pruposal reminds me of one of the most annoying things about Vicky's interface. i had to remember the names of the provinces i want to demand/give and then i have to go ask for it in the peace negotiation. since the interface is the biggest improvement of Vicky's sequel, we should then be able to choose the provinces we demand right of the map.

 

[Rithral]

the OP's first pruposal reminds me of one of the most annoying things about Vicky's interface. i had to remember the names of the provinces i want to demand/give and then i have to go ask for it in the peace negotiation. since the interface is the biggest improvement of Vicky's sequel, we should then be able to choose the provinces we demand right of the map.

UI for the EU3 based engine should, in general, function as OP states.

Examples where this would be helpful in HOI3 abound.
I want supplies from THIS port (Point Click) to go to THIS port (Point Click).

I want this (Point Click), this (Point Click), this (Point Click), and this (Point Click), province to be be in the new theater.

The anoying "god, what was the name of that strange province that sounds like that other stange province" scrolling through a list has been in multiple PI games.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

You guys need to read the developers' diary about war and peace. The war aims system will address most of these points - there will be an interface where you define what exactly you are fighting for, before you go to war. Also there you add additional war aims during the war, if you feel you are going tpo be very successful.

King mentioned that this will also allow war aims like demanding the release of a new free nation, war reparations, transfer of territory, full annexation etc. Transfer of territory in particular will be revised, he hinted that now you can only demand states to be transfered, not a splattering of provinces like in Vic1.

When a country is losing, with this new system it clicks on the button "sue for peace" and then gets to select which of the opponents' war aims it will offer to enact. If they feel they are not fully beaten they will offer to fulfill only a part of the stated war aims of the opponent. The other party then chooses whether or not they like this. If they don't, I guess they can reject and click on "Offer peace" and demand that the war aims are fulfilled in full.

If the two sides make peace, the side which could not fulfill its war aims will suffer POP militancy and radicalization due to unhappiness of the population. Thus giving you situations where losing a war leads to the downfall of a government, or even massive civil unrest. (cf. Germany 1918)

 

[Orinsul]

the EU3 peace window with colouring makes the Victoria One peace issue no longer so much a big one. Clicking on the map to me would be a bad thing as clicking on the map is a time honoured way to get rid of the negoition window.

But as for releasing im going to say what ive always said, when you release a country, you should get to choose what provinces it gets. A window opens up with all the core provinces defeat seleted and you can include more or take some out depending on what you want the country to be.

 

[JoeGiavani]

Custom satellites are a must. France should be able to crush the Prussians in the Franco-Prussian war and create a Federation of the Rhine with a load of German provinces.

 

[Orinsul]

and especially when it comes to creating dominions out of the colonies, Maybe even a few generic colonial tags that are given a name based on the state [region] their capital is in and can be made any size and shape you want them to be as long as they have continious borders. So that africa can be divied between the powers and then given home rule.

 

[JoeGiavani]

I always thought it'd be cool to do that in Vicky 1. There could be regions of Africa attached to the nation name, so you could have "French West Africa" or "Portugese Congo". Don't know how dynamic the tags are though so things like that might not be possible.

 

[Orinsul]

From the look of the screenshot in one of the DDs with Britain changing its name and Romes governor states, it can probably be done. If their willing to do it

 

[King of Men]

You guys need to read the developers' diary about war and peace. The war aims system will address most of these points - there will be an interface where you define what exactly you are fighting for, before you go to war. Also there you add additional war aims during the war, if you feel you are going tpo be very successful.

The point remains, however, that the interface for choosing your war goals can be a wall of text, or it can be clicking on the provinces you want in a map.

 

[Otacon]

I'm not yet sure how i feel about that "War Goal"-Business - i hope there is room for variation, it would really suck if the goals would be "as is" for the whole war. What if i'm now making an exceptional advance and want to have even more? Or how is it done for the defender, lets imagine you get dow'ed by an enemy who seems overwhelming at first. Then my war goal would be to survive. But if, whyever, i am able to change the situation to my advantage, i would want something in return for sure. Its like the commies in WW2. First war goal was to survive. Then it was to get as much german land as possible.

 

[Trin Tragula]

the EU3 peace window with colouring makes the Victoria One peace issue no longer so much a big one.

Except for countries that have colonies were the peace window will often be centered on the atlantic ocean with both the americas and europe non visible...

 

[Orinsul]

then the screen being scrollable is a more reasonable option then scrapping it altogether for a new system with unforeen issues, the EU3 system has one fault and it is one easily fixed by allowing the screens centre to be moved.

 

[Cinéad IV]

Custom satelites are an absolute must, and are the main reason why I would be loathe to lose the 'open negotiations' button.

But a function that allows you to custom create a satelite, deciding which provinces it gets and which it doesn't, would be fantastic. As Prussia, having taken Russian Poland I might want a Polish satelite without losing Posen and Danzig. As Prussia, I should be able to do that.

And the war goals system sounds excellent: though I do think there should be leeway to demand single provinces. A player invading China might want Hong Kong, but nothing else.

 

[Snaake]

I'm not yet sure how i feel about that "War Goal"-Business - i hope there is room for variation, it would really suck if the goals would be "as is" for the whole war. What if i'm now making an exceptional advance and want to have even more? Or how is it done for the defender, lets imagine you get dow'ed by an enemy who seems overwhelming at first. Then my war goal would be to survive. But if, whyever, i am able to change the situation to my advantage, i would want something in return for sure. Its like the commies in WW2. First war goal was to survive. Then it was to get as much german land as possible.

Like Leviathan07 said in post #8, you need to read the DD on war and peace. He also said that the DD says that you will be able to add more war goals during the war (don't think you can remove them though). This also applies to the defender, so yes, initially your "war goal" is just to survive, but you can add more goals.

The way to allow a human player to get eg. only Hong Kong or only Singapore would be to make those separate states. You only need a few of these one-province states if you want to account for historical places like this (Hong Kong, Macao, Singapore, what else?). And states are probably going to be moddable somehow anyway.

 

[JoeGiavani]

I'm not yet sure how i feel about that "War Goal"-Business - i hope there is room for variation, it would really suck if the goals would be "as is" for the whole war. What if i'm now making an exceptional advance and want to have even more? Or how is it done for the defender, lets imagine you get dow'ed by an enemy who seems overwhelming at first. Then my war goal would be to survive. But if, whyever, i am able to change the situation to my advantage, i would want something in return for sure. Its like the commies in WW2. First war goal was to survive. Then it was to get as much german land as possible.

The Soviets didn't grab any more land than they already got from the M-R Pact so I'm not sure what your point is.