Voigt

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As last year on PDXcon 2019 there was also a HoI IV Challenge to do.

Last year it was: In 30min play Poland in 1939 bookmark, and inflict as much casualties as possible. This was done with 1 800 000 German casualties on the convention, and so this became the achivement 30 Minutes of Hel:

This year the challenge was Don't Die For Your Country: Start as Germany in 1939 bookmark, and with as little casualties as possible take and completely control Poland and Mainland France. Also with a time limit of 30 mins, but which wasn't enforced as much, since this limit was more that you don't hog the computer forever, so other people can play aswell.
EHPNYWCXUAA_KPf

(Picture from Feedbackgaming in Twitter)

The challenge was completed with a 475 casualties on the German side, so this will probably become the new achievement number. On the convention itself I thought about a new tactic to lower this count even further.
2F5DBDC290F59AF082B7319BA8E98EBBAD62EC72

and yeah this is quite possible.

With a bit of air micro you can probably get under 100 casualties. This took 3 tries on my home pc in ironman mode and under 10min per run.

The trick is:
Put 48 Infantry divisions on the western polish border, 24 to East Prussia, 24 against France. These divisions are only there, that you won't get attacked.
Have your one Tank in East Prussia drive against Danzig.

With the rest of your 6 strong tank divisions and 4 weak ones form an army of 10, and drive them to Wilhelmshaven.

The Rest of your divisions you can disband.

Put 25 factories on light tank II production, or more doesn't really matter. You don't need to pick a focus, construct anything with your civ, or research anything.
Spend you PP for Infantry and tank expert, you can also take the ground support staff and military theorist.

Move all your Airforce the Rhineland, and put your whole fleet together in the Baltic.

Let some time pass, only a few hours, Poland should leave the Danzig province. Directly declare war (you have wargoal, no need for Danzig or War Focus), without calling in Italy or Slovakia and drive with your tank into Danzig.

There should still be 12 Divisions under way to East Prussia, so put your fleet on convoy escort.

Meanwhile with your tanks, plan 10 naval invasions. 6 from Dunkerque to Le Havre, and 4 from east of Brest to Cherbourg.

When you divisions savely arrived in East Prussia, put your fleet on invasion support in North Sea+Channel and put them in Weser-Ems Naval-Base.

Put your Naval Bombers and Tactical Bombers on Marine Strike in the Channel, have your Heavy Fighter escort them. With your normal Fighter and CAS get Air Suppiroty and CAS Mission over France. Spread them out a bit on the French Border, so you don't overcrowd your airports.

After 7 days start the Naval Invasion, and land with your tanks. Atleast one harbor should be undefended, so you get supply in Normandy/Picardi. Dircetly drive with your Tanks to Paris. Now this decides if this run works or not. If only a single division happens to be in Paris, this is over, you won't get it fast enough. If there is none, which happens quite often, just drive into it. With Paris, Calais, Amiens, Rouen, Lorient and Brest (western invasions) you have enough VP to capitulate France.
Either clean up the pockets of British divisions in France, or ignore them, up to you.

Plan 10 new naval invasions from Northen France. From Plymouth to Norwich. Put all your airplanes into the Channel, put your CAS on Naval Strike Mission aswell. Put your fleet an Invasion Support again this time only the English Channel. If it repairs, abort it. Wait 7 days, naval invade Britain, switch Invasion support to convoy escort, put your fighters into the english airports and english airzones, drive trough England where only 4 divisions or so should be, capitualte them, and then just peacedeal the Allies, including Poland.

Since you never fought with your Infantry you never got much casualties. When your Tanks fight your only get single digit casualties while fighting, because the AI can't pierce you. Only enemy airplanes hurt you, as seen in the screenshot, so always be on the lookout.

If you are extremly lucky, you could probably do a 0 casualties run.

On PDXcon I just naval invaded France and after that went for Poland, pushing with my10 Light Tank Divisions, which now can use all the FCM Tanks from France aswell. I pushed from the West, captured all the Victory Points. But watch out, to don't create pockets. If everything is connected, the Poles will just stand still and do nothing, like you want to. But if you pocket some, they panically try to break out and fight against your Infantry, which you don't want. Especially be on the lookout if you push for Warszawa, that you don't connect with East Prussia. Takes a bit more casualties, but hey it is also a bit more fun.

Also an explanation for @Da9L , because he was curious how it can be done with such low numbers.

Edit: Recorded an attempt with only 14 casualties:
 
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As last year on PDXcon 2019 there was also a HoI IV Challenge to do.

Last year it was: In 30min play Poland in 1939 bookmark, and inflict as much casualties as possible. This was done with 1 800 000 German casualties on the convention, and so this became the achivement 30 Minutes of Hel.

This year the challenge was: Start as Germany in 1939 bookmark, and with as little casualties as possible conquer and completly controll Poland and Mainland France. Also with a time limit of 30mins, but which wasn't enforced as much, since this limit was more that you don't hog the computer forever, so other people can play aswell.

The challenge was completed with a 475 casualties on the German side, so this will probably become the new achivement number. On the convention itself I thought about a new tactic to lower this count even further.
2F5DBDC290F59AF082B7319BA8E98EBBAD62EC72

and yeah this is quite possible.

With a bit of air micro you can probably get under 100 casualties. This took 3 tries on my home pc in ironman mode, and under 10min per run.

The trick is:
Put 48 Infantry divisions on the western polish border, 24 to East Prussia, 24 against France. This divisions are only, that you won't get attacked.
Have your one Tank in East Prussia drive against Danzig.

With the rest of your 6 strong tank divisions and 4 weak ones form an army of 10, and drive them to Wilhelmshaven.

The Rest of your divisions you can disband.

Put 25 factories on light tank II production, or more doesn't really matter. You don't need to pick a focus, construct anything with your civ or research anything.
Spend you PP for Infantry and tank expert, you can also take the ground support staff and military theorist.

Move all your Airforce the Rhineland, and put your whole fleet together in the Baltic.

Let some time pass, only a few hours, Poland should leave the Danzig province. Directly declare war (you have wargoal, no need for Danzig or War Focus), without calling in Italy or Slovakia and drive with your tank into Danzig.

There should still be 12 Divisions under way to East Prussia, so put your fleet on convoy escort.

Meanwhile with your tanks, plan 10 naval invasions. 6 from Dunkerque to Le Havre, and 4 from east of brest till Cherbourg.

When you divisions savely arrived in East Prussia, put your fleet on invasion support in North Sea+Channel and put them in Weser-Ems Naval-Base.

Put your Naval Bombers and Tactical Bombers on Marine Strike in the Channel, have your Heavy Fighter escort them. With your normal Fighter and CAS get Air Suppiroty and CAS Mission over France. Spread them out a bit on the French Border, so you don't overcrowd your airports.

After 7 days start the Naval Invasion, and land with your tanks. Atleast one harbor should be undefended, so you get supply in Normandy/Picardi. Dircetly drive with your Tanks to Paris. Now this decides if this run works or not. If only a single division happens to be in Paris, this is over, you won't get it fast enough. If there is none, which happens quite often, just drive into it. With Paris, Calais, Amiens, Rouen, Lorient and Brest (western invasions) you have enough VP to capitulate France.
Either clean up the pockets of British divisions in France, or ignore them, up to you.

Plan 10 new naval invasions from Northen France. From Plymouth to Norwich. Put all your airplanes into the Channel, put your CAS on Naval Strike Mission aswell. Put your fleet an Invasion Support again this time only the English Channel. If it repairs, abort it. Wait 7 days, naval invade Britain, switch Invasion support to convoy escort, put your fighters into the english airports and english airzones, drive trough England where only 4 divisions or so should be, capitualte them, and then just peacedeal the Allies, including Poland.

Since you never fought with your Infantry you never got much casualties. When your Tanks fight your only get single digit casualties while fighting, because the AI can't pierce you. Only enemy airplanes hurt you, as seen in the screenshot, so always be on the lookout.

If you are extremly lucky, you could probably do a 0 casualties run.

Also an explanation for @Da9L , because he was curious how it can be done with such low numbers.


@Voigt is now in charge. You're all fired.

hqdefault.jpg
 

Reman

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This is a good strat...

After 7 days start the Naval Invasion, and land with your tanks. Atleast one harbor should be undefended, so you get supply in Normandy/Picardi. Dircetly drive with your Tanks to Paris. Now this decides if this run works or not. If only a single division happens to be in Paris, this is over, you won't get it fast enough. If there is none, which happens quite often, just drive into it. With Paris, Calais, Amiens, Rouen, Lorient and Brest (western invasions) you have enough VP to capitulate France.
This doesn't sound like a very fun challenge though. My problem with difficult starts or time-limited runs in EU4 is that it often boils down to "reroll X number of times until you get a start that trivializes the difficulty". HoI4 tends to get away from this through historical focuses railroading things in the same way every time, but challenges like this put that RNG right back in.
 
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Ivankovsky

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I'm starting to feel animosity towards these challenge based achievements...
30 minutes of Hel was utterly frustrating... This one looks you are going to need luck on your side even with the most optimal strat...

And remember that we are going to have this achievement with a (hopefully) improved AI, the strat in this post may no longer work as good once the update is out.
 
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orochi2k

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I have an idea...

Calling Mussolini...
Hey, Italy. I want to borrow some expendable forces....oops... I mean expedition forces.... :p
 

Voigt

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Expedtions forces, aswel as paratroopers were banned in the challenge. My first tactic was: Naval invading France and capitulating them. With this freeing up Italy, so they defeat Poland for me, just as an AI. Sadly they didn't do well. Next I tried helping them out by encircling the captial of Poland with a strong Tank push and then just wait on speed 5 for polish organisation to drop and win with tanks and Italians. This didn't work. So then while on PDXcon I relied on Naval Invading France and then defeating Poland with Light Tanks pushes. With this I got first 1,6k casualties, then 475.

Only when it was to late for another run, I came to an idea to naval invade Britain aswell, and not fighting against Poland, to keep the casualties even under 100.

For staying under 100 you need a bit of luck yeah.

Thinking of cheesy tactic while on the con was fun, especially because of the time limit, since I wanted to also visit talks, try other game and stuff. Don't want to spend the whole day grinding the challenge.
But now as the record stands, the achievment will probably quite boring, atleast for the forum people who know my tactic.

Atleast I didn't think of capitulating the Allies from the very start. With this knowledge, I could maybe have done a 0 casualties for e challenge, to make it extra frustrating or outright impossible in the next patch.
 

Voigt

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In my posted video you can see, that the British put their fleet out in the channel, atleast part of it. But my fleet had enough fleetpower, so that my invasions could roll out and my invasions never got intercepted.
 

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How the hell does Britain give you enough naval superiority to invade? :-O :(

I don't know much of the naval game I admit, but since after MtG's I had a much easier time making naval invasions.
I think its because the UK no longer has their entire frigging fleet on patrol 100% of the time, so you just need a lucky break to launch the invasion, after that you just need to protect the convoys until they land, at least that's how I understand it..
 

Reman

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How the hell does Britain give you enough naval superiority to invade? :-O :(
The UK will often leave its fleet as a strike force into the Channel, but will then occasionally switch orders for brief (<24 hours) periods of time. This leaves windows where even modest fleets can achieve >50% control, especially if they have naval mines and air superiority. You only need a single hour of >50% naval superiority to launch invasions.
 

Voigt

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I didn't call in Italy into the war, so they don't get any say in the peace conference. Don't need them.

No time for Naval mines.

Just did another 2 runs. In the first run one convoy got sunk by subs, so I lost 2k man.

But in the next run it was nearly perfect, only 14 casualties for everything. 6 against Free France (fighting a Naval Invasion against a defended port), 8 against British Airplanes on the Islands (fighting for London)
 
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It's also worth pointing out that, unlike a human, the AI won't see a "Invasion Happening!" message and say to itself, "If I put ships in the Channel, since I have a gigantic navy, maybe I can bag some of the incoming divisions." Even a squad of cheap submarines could seriously slow down or screw up landings by tying down divisions in convoy battles or even sinking some of the convoys. But surely Hood and 25 other capital ships, plus 250 DDs, should be be able to massacre most of the invasion.

But as far as I can tell, the AI doesn't think that way.
 

seattle

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To be fair, it's impossible to script an AI able to cope with a conventional war à la Fall Gelb AND a cheese of this magnitude at the same time.

Actually, it's not.
Even back in the HoI2 days, mods like C.O.R.E. (and even vanilla in battle scenarios) had a simple solution: place immovable garrison units in key provinces like Moscow and Berlin.

Problem solved, no more cheese.
 

Voigt

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Depends on how strong the garrision would be, but wouldn't be impossible, just would take some more planning. Since I had nearly 20 more minutes for the challenge, I could easily wait some months before declaring war and first farming ArmyXP trough training and focus, maybe sending an Attache somewhere, and changing my tank templates with lots of SP-Arty, maybe even Light SP-Arty 3 if I research it. With that, and lots of CAS I could probably break a garrison on Paris quite quickly after landing in Normandy. Especially if I can make the template 40 width, or atleast 30 width and attack with 4 divisions from several sides at once.
 

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I can appreciate poeple doing this, it requires serious knowledge about the game and insights how it works. But I actually don't want to be forced to play this way. There is a lot of merit in these exercises in finding the AI's weak spots. But I hope it will be used to fix'em, rahter than to celebrate the exploitation. I would be great if this was the outcome of this experience.
 

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  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
Actually I wouldn't advertise this because it shows the games major flaws. If you can cheese the game this badly then that means the game has serious issues.
 

Voigt

General
63 Badges
Mar 15, 2012
1.915
1.880
There is a reason I mosly play competative mulitplayer. Getting the Achievments is fun, but after that Singleplayer is only for testing buildup strategies for multiplayer. Atleast for me. :)