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Nurgle84

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It seems to me, that the AI is exclusively using PD/Flak builds in the early game. Has anyone had an AI using Interceptors or Missile Boats early on? Or is it only on Captain and below? Maybe its better in higher difficulties? This makes early wars either unwinnable (You used missiles for some variation of gameplay), one-sided (You used Interceptor builds) or... well weird, as you used auto-build it seems. A bit more randomness here could make early wars more interesting I think. Paradox please? Some Variation?
 

Leylos

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I wish they would revert PD being available from the start.

The AI was always a fan of it, but now they are using it on most of their ships.

Missiles and Strikecraft are completely obsolete right now.
 

Gratak

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I wish they would revert PD being available from the start.

The AI was always a fan of it, but now they are using it on most of their ships.

Missiles and Strikecraft are completely obsolete right now.
Disagree. It being available at start makes sense. Instead of changing that, they need to
1. Make AI preferences more diverse (that should be easy)
2. Finally fix missile vs PD balance (that will probably never happen)
 

Leylos

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Disagree. It being available at start makes sense. Instead of changing that, they need to
1. Make AI preferences more diverse (that should be easy)
2. Finally fix missile vs PD balance (that will probably never happen)

Maybe instead we get an option during empire creation what kind of ship design we want to start with?
 

Gratak

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Maybe instead we get an option during empire creation what kind of ship design we want to start with?
While I'm all for game options, this would make it harder for the devs to balance the game. If you have three corvette variants available at the start (missile, PD, 3S) you can balance them vs each other (missile beats 3S, PD beats missile, 3S beats PD). If one is missing, you either have a "everything is the same anyway" or a "one is clearly superior" situation.
 

sortulv

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It might be a consequence of everyone putting hangars on the starbases - that tends to be the first thing the AI spots of your configuration, after all.

I did note that having build shields only ships for a decade, when I went to war my enemy (also my rival) had mass driver (interceptor builds) ships. I really hope that was not random, but rather planned by the AI.
 

Leylos

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While I'm all for game options, this would make it harder for the devs to balance the game. If you have three corvette variants available at the start (missile, PD, 3S) you can balance them vs each other (missile beats 3S, PD beats missile, 3S beats PD). If one is missing, you either have a "everything is the same anyway" or a "one is clearly superior" situation.

Oh no you misunderstood. You would still have all the available weapons. It's just a matter of choosing what the 3 corvettes start with.
 

Dug

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Can confirm the PD spam, even without using missiles or strike craft they use PD for no real reason. My suggestion would be to bring back starting weapons as an under the hood thing for AI where they have 33.33% chance to focus either energy weapons, kinetic or missile. Then customize weapon configs for it and go from there. Would add predictability yes, but it'd be a hell of a lot better than constant PD fleets. On that note it can be coded after for the AI to adapt to your loadout. Problem solved? Hopefully?
 

Gratak

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Oh no you misunderstood. You would still have all the available weapons. It's just a matter of choosing what the 3 corvettes start with.
Sorry. But that wouldn't really solve the problem with the AI. And for the player it's just about those first three corvettes that don't really matter that much.

On that note it can be coded after for the AI to adapt to your loadout. Problem solved? Hopefully?
That could go wrong in may ways...
 

Dug

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I really don't see it. An AI just like the player would create counters that can be profiled into the code. Would you care to explain how it would go wrong?
 

Gratak

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I really don't see it. An AI just like the player would create counters that can be profiled into the code. Would you care to explain how it would go wrong?
Well :

1. AI might be much better than player in that respect, since AI knows everything. As long as there is no espionage system in Stellaris, there is not really a good way to decide "ok, now the AI is really supposed to know your setup".

2. AI might change their design too often (and thus ruin themselves even more than they already do).
AI 1:"Hey my hated neighbor AI changed their design, I need to change mine"
AI 2:"Hey my hated neighbor AI changed their design, I need to change mine"
AI 1:"Hey my hated neighbor AI changed their design, I need to change mine"
...
 

Dug

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Okay you are definitely not wrong and I can see how this would be bad, but this is computer programming you can add exceptions and rulings that can be consistently checked whether they're true or false. You don't want it checking all the time though as that'll ruin performance needlessly.

So when does the AI check:

1. When it encounters an enemy fleet unrelated to actual player or npc empires such as space amoebas.
2. When it obtains sensor range on a fleet of considerable size of a rival.
3. When it is hostile to another empire and is about to declare war.
4. When war is declared on it.
5. When a galactic crisis happens and it experiences first contact with the select crisis.
6. When it suffers catastrophic loses in its current fleet and needs to rebuild. (Aka check what went wrong)

(I'm fairly certain you could add more to this but let's treat this as the basic outliner. Until any of these happen the AI is told to use the best available technology befitting it's ENERGY, KINETIC or EXPLOSIVE profile. Because lets face it that's what the player does, he uses the best available technology and tries to balance damage to armor and shield. Which I am fairly certain can be done, you should be capable of programming to tell the AI to use a balanced setup of shield vs armor damaging weapons. Anyway moving on.)

Given we don't have a proper fog of war(well we do, but it's the bare bone intel system) and we don't have espionage. I'd use the intel system as I've already given an example of, because you cannot see the enemy fleet until its within your sensor range.

Now, in order to prevent the AI from retrofitting all the time and bankrupting itself out of alloys it should be given different levels of urgency. So I'll attempt to define these levels of urgency. It's worth mentioning, the AI should have a formula or a hard cap where it is forbidden to expend a crazy amount of alloys for no reason as far as fleets are concerned.

AI Logic:
1. Adapt ship design only to main threat, then scale threat of additional parties according to firepower and naval capacity of their currently fielded fleets. (Stops retrofitting just because someone else entered it's space.)
2. Check if you are using PD and the enemy doesn't have weapon systems that are countered by PD and the other way around.
3. Cooldown on upgrading/retrofitting unless the war is over, the threat has passed, AI has lost all ships.
4. Focus on fighting first, upgrade if you return for repairs or are at max two/three jumps away from a shipyard.

Well the more I write about this the more I realize how much an AI overhaul Stellaris needs. It's clear I could go on like this for a while. I'm just wondering if this gets my point across? Sophisticated AI can be made, it's just hard.