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Storey

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Originally posted by boehm


I agree! :)

....on another note: for some reason my PM doesnt work??? ...it keeps claiming that my inbox is full but I have emptied everything I could?? ...anyway so if u want to do diplomacy u should send me an email instead! ok?

claus

Have you emptied out your sent mail box. Maybe that's what's full.

Joe
 

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Originally posted by boehm


I agree! :)

....on another note: for some reason my PM doesnt work??? ...it keeps claiming that my inbox is full but I have emptied everything I could?? ...anyway so if u want to do diplomacy u should send me an email instead! ok?

claus


I don't know...but...it's frustrating typing up a "DEATH TO THE FRENCH INFIDELS!" PM and then having it disappear without saving a draft copy...:D
 

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Originally posted by Storey


I agree but I would add that they need to be near to each other. In this game I can attack France and even Venice and hope to win but Sweden is too far away to hope to do any serious damage.:D Being in contact or close to each other would also increase the diplomatic side of the game. I'm enjoying this game and haven't conceded it to France yet.:D

How do you set the AI agressiveness?

Joe

Concur on the near to each other aspect...would have to define near though. I guess the easy choices for the PBEM would be in the Med or in the HRE. I was eyeing Morocco or an Italian minor for the next game. We could always relocate to SE Asia or Africa though. I'm flexible...just let me know.

On setting AI agressiveness: I'm not sure how...never done it personally...but..I know it can be done. I saw one of the other PBEM forums talking about it...and...I have seen GD posts on editing it in wordpad for Burgundy. I think it would help keep BB down and minimize the impact of the AI on your nation. In this game I was forced to play the warmonger since Venice continued to DoW w/out CB's, annex militarily, etc. I'll do the research if you guys are interested in that feature.
 

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Originally posted by Backpack


On setting AI agressiveness: I'm not sure how...never done it personally...but..I know it can be done. I saw one of the other PBEM forums talking about it...and...I have seen GD posts on editing it in wordpad for Burgundy. I think it would help keep BB down and minimize the impact of the AI on your nation. In this game I was forced to play the warmonger since Venice continued to DoW w/out CB's, annex militarily, etc. I'll do the research if you guys are interested in that feature.

I checked it out a bit...and its really simple to edit AI with respect to aggresiveness, who to attack and where to colonize...with just these three parameters its much easier to do real diplomacy and stuff too...I was actually considering suggesting that forced annexation should only be allowed of core provinces...to avoid having the world split up like this...what do u think?

claus
 

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Originally posted by boehm


I checked it out a bit...and its really simple to edit AI with respect to aggresiveness, who to attack and where to colonize...with just these three parameters its much easier to do real diplomacy and stuff too...I was actually considering suggesting that forced annexation should only be allowed of core provinces...to avoid having the world split up like this...what do u think?

claus

Ahhhh...a limited growth policy.:D I feel like I'm taking City and Regional Planning courses again.:) Sure, sounds fine to me. I can go either way on that issue. Would you want to turn off forced annexations totally? HRE little guys would definately live a lot longer that way. I've never played a game like that.
 
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boehm

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by the way backpack....I tried to not hurt the aggresive venetian forces too much....have u had a look at your situation yet?

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Originally posted by boehm
by the way backpack....I tried to not hurt the aggresive venetian forces too much....have u had a look at your situation yet?

claus

No....but...agressive Venitians?...:D...who DoW'ed who after all?..:D I'll look tonight and drop you an e-mail later.
 

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well I wanted/needed to go to war with savoy & mains anyway....and it doesnt really matter if I attack you and then they join you or if I attack them and then Venice joins....and since I had a CB on Venice...well then venice it was...but I didnt invade any of your territory and I actually tried to just let the venetians roam around in France but at some point I had to drive them out since your armies were behaving most rude attacking all of my small stacks of troops and running around with 4 armies totaling around 60k inside my territory....and I did try to make u go away but noooo venice didnt want that 150d I offered a couple of times no sir...

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Also, I would recommend that the turns be randomized to some degree. The current set up would allow you to constantly DoW the person after you and then make peace at the end of your turn. This forces the next player to take the stab/BB hit for breaking a truce with you if he wants to retaliate.

Turn rules could run something like:

1. The last person of the current round sets the order for the next round.

2. The last person cannot assign himself to the first or last position. This prevents prolonged turns (i.e. Player A gets to play 10 years in a row)...and...prevents one player from continually being able to set the order.

3. No repeated relationships. Player B can't follow Player C in back to back rounds (i.e. no ACBD, then CBDA).

Hopefully, under these rules, sequences would run something like:

Round 1:
Player A
Player B
Player C
Player D

Round 2:
CBDA
Round 3:
DBAC
Round 4:
ADCB
etc, etc, etc

I hope that isn't too confusing.:D I like the KISS principle, Keep It Simple Stupid....but...I think some regulation would be required to limit abuses.

What do you guys think of that proposal?
 
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Originally posted by boehm
well I wanted/needed to go to war with savoy & mains anyway....and it doesnt really matter if I attack you and then they join you or if I attack them and then Venice joins....and since I had a CB on Venice...well then venice it was...but I didnt invade any of your territory and I actually tried to just let the venetians roam around in France but at some point I had to drive them out since your armies were behaving most rude attacking all of my small stacks of troops and running around with 4 armies totaling around 60k inside my territory....and I did try to make u go away but noooo venice didnt want that 150d I offered a couple of times no sir...

claus

Yeah, that Venitian AI is a greedy Son of a...errr...gun...:D
 

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I noticed you guys are talking about AIs/randomized turn order.

The AIs are working out well (and they are very easy), although we are still managing to annex everything in sight (perhaps lowered aggressiveness in game options on top of the custom ais would help)...
See:

http://home.broadpark.no/~havmoe/EU/scenario_ai.htm

Randomized turn order we just pick randomly each turn. It does introduce 10 year turns, although there are disadvantages to having this as your turn as well. You can always do more in ten years, but there are somethings you can do more of in seperate 5 year turns. It was this or Backpack's suggestion (last turn order chooses), but we felt this gave the last player too much power. However, I never thought of not being able to have the same back to back every turn.
If you use this, or think up another, let me know how it turns out.

We also introduced out of game deals. Trading provinces, maps, alliances, etc (by editing the savegame). Makes for an interesting feature, although it gives the humans an obvious advantage over the AI.

All and all this pbem concept is working out well. Thanks for the suggestion!
 
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Ludovico,

Thanks for the info...and...feel free to jump in with any other ideas. This is not an exact science.:D...by any stretch of the imagination.

Backpack
 

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Originally posted by Ludovico
I noticed you guys are talking about AIs/randomized turn order.

The AIs are working out well (and they are very easy), although we are still managing to annex everything in sight (perhaps lowered aggressiveness in game options on top of the custom ais would help)...
See:
[

I was thinking something like this as well....remember that I suggested a houserule which limited "forced annexation" to core territories & pagan nations...well if u combine this with modified AI files people would just set their aggressiveness to 100% and then the AI would just do all the annexation for you while u still had full deniability "hey it was the AI not me!!"...so perhaps we should set a cap on aggressiveness to 70% or something (whats the aggressivenss of France, England, Spain, Russia etc?? - just to get some to compare to!)

claus
 

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I was also thinking that perhaps it would be OK to allow people to edit the event list...basically removing any B) or C) options to ensure that the AI would choose the "historical option"....ei. to ensure that Moscowy & Castille doesnt decline to form Russia & Spain...

Perhaps its a bit too harsh to allow players to edit freely...although taking the historical choise 100% instead of 85% is not too violent...however since this would remove much of the random element allowing perfect planning of DP (personally I like that u cant plan perfectly)...So perhaps we should allow only a limited number of edits? say 4? ....or perhaps 3 histirical & 1 nonhistorical?

what do u think?

claus
 

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I think I managed to proporly clean out my PM box this time....so now it should be possible to PM me again! :)

claus
 

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Originally posted by boehm
I was also thinking that perhaps it would be OK to allow people to edit the event list...basically removing any B) or C) options to ensure that the AI would choose the "historical option"....ei. to ensure that Moscowy & Castille doesnt decline to form Russia & Spain...

Perhaps its a bit too harsh to allow players to edit freely...although taking the historical choise 100% instead of 85% is not too violent...however since this would remove much of the random element allowing perfect planning of DP (personally I like that u cant plan perfectly)...So perhaps we should allow only a limited number of edits? say 4? ....or perhaps 3 histirical & 1 nonhistorical?

what do u think?

claus

I am not opposed to the limited edits...but...having never played with editing game files...here are a few questions:
1. Would each player have to change the events for all 4-5 human nations to make this work?
2. Do changes only effect the saved game file...OR...core game parameters?
3. If edits do effect core game files, how can we keep the edits from impacting those playing multiple PBEM games...OR...other solo games I am playing?

I had wanted to change the AI agressiveness to keep BB down. That way I could do all the BB actions and the AI could build infrastructure during the dead time while BB decreased. With a warmonger like Venice, the AI causes BB to skyrocket.
 
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Originally posted by Backpack


I am not opposed to the limited edits...but...having never played with editing game files...here are a few questions:
1. Would each player have to change the events for all 4-5 human nations to make this work?
2. Do changes only effect the saved game file...OR...core game parameters?
3. If edits do effect core game files, how can we keep the edits from impacting those playing multiple PBEM games...OR...other solo games I am playing?

I had wanted to change the AI agressiveness to keep BB down. That way I could do all the BB actions and the AI could build infrastructure during the dead time while BB decreased. With a warmonger like Venice, the AI causes BB to skyrocket.

1) yes...you would have to edit your AI settings and then mail them to everyone else...

2) & 3) this is what the current venice file looks like:

country = {
tag = VEN
ai = "venice.ai"


I think that u can just create a new AI file eg. named "backpack.ai" and then just change the default ai of venice in the specific savegame file to use "backpack.ai" instead of the current "venice.ai"...this way u wouldnt have to backup any of the original ai files!

claus
 
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Originally posted by boehm


1) yes...you would have to edit your AI settings and then mail them to everyone else...

2) & 3) this is what the current venice file looks like:

country = {
tag = VEN
ai = "venice.ai"


I think that u can just create a new AI file eg. named "backpack.ai" and then just change the default ai of venice in the specific savegame file to use "backpack.ai" instead of the current "venice.ai"...this way u wouldnt have to backup any of the original ai files!

claus

The AI changes sound pretty easy to incorporate into PBEM games...minimal impact on other games. How would editing events work for everyone? Are event choices seperate from the AI files...or...part of the AI file?
 

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I probably won't be changing the event files since I like the possiblity that things won't go the way I had hoped they would. But I don't have a problem in the next game if we are playing minors for anyone to edit the event file. The problem with doing it with a major country or even a minor with a lot of events is that it can effect the balance of the game. Something like editing out the time of troubles for Russia I would view as a mistake. Maybe we should kick this around some more. Also if you have four people editing files I wonder what the odd are for someone to screw up (like me:) ) and corrupt the file.

I don't have a problem with the concept of random playing order. What I have a problem with is how its done.
Here's the problem: Player A is huge compared to everyone else so the other three decide to cut him down to size. So the turn sequence is like this ABCD. I'm D so I get to set up the next turn and I choose CDBA. A will not have a chance to play for 30 years and his empire will have suffered heavy damage by then. Is there a way around this problem? Do we trust anyone to roll some dice and tell us who plays next?

Joe
 

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Originally posted by Ludovico

Randomized turn order we just pick randomly each turn. It does introduce 10 year turns, although there are disadvantages to having this as your turn as well. You can always do more in ten years, but there are somethings you can do more of in seperate 5 year turns. It was this or Backpack's suggestion (last turn order chooses), but we felt this gave the last player too much power. However, I never thought of not being able to have the same back to back every turn.

How does the randomized turn order work? I mean what's the mechanism that chooses who plays when? Does someone roll some dice? How do you prevent the urge to cheat? :D

Joe