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Hiliadan

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The PBEM and single player balance mod's adventure started more than 2 years ago, in August 2016 in this thread: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/pbem-balance-mod

I'm now migrating the development thread here. This thread serves to list the bugs or issues of the mod, post the changelog for working build and exchange between the modder, Zaskow, and the coordinator, me, and the rest of the community.
It should NOT be used to post balance ideas: new threads should be opened, or discussions should be led in specific existing threads.

Important links:
- the mod on Steam (main branch): http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=661597466
- the beta branch of the mod (to push new versions for testing): http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=758212846
- the Strong Defender Normal Reward mod (part of the balance mod): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1374641017
- the simplified changelog: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jgwAg70dwNm8i3nFJqt8hrnwpNmxudn2aSXuvDet-5w/edit
- the changelog version by version: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m9ZmjhWNrdL3gH5zVA0iMiWImW9cQF-RFAcnGx6p7NU/edit
- the table with all proposed changes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...9ej2mYrSGNc4V3_QA/edit#heading=h.3zsuz8tz7bt8
- the table with all description updates: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eVOyD2rdiUb4PytVhaKT1rxNiWMquRAlnXw587VwBpg/edit
- the Dropbox folder with all the versions: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qv7gezs9rk8o60p/AABNUMDz1J9CSqGsUvJsrlzwa?dl=0
 

Hiliadan

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Preliminary changelog of v1.26:
GC14b
Kwapa starts with Swimming (was 2 free UP), Falenas starts with Fel Horse (was 2 free UP), Nashac starts with Free Movement (was 2 free UP).

GC50b
True Resurrect cannot target the cadaver of enemy units with Mind-Control Immunity and gives "Mind-controlled" to enemy units it resurrects (+25% upkeep) (Greater Resurrect, 25CP working only on allied units can still work on MCI and does not give Mind-controlled).

– fix the CP exploit in the Shrine of the Spider Queen, see 6/ here http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic...tion-time-immunity-to-aura-effect-shapeshift/ (not sure it’s fixable though)
– fix the “units acquiring Floating through items or abilities affected by Twisting Roots” issue with what is reported at the end of this: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic...tion-time-immunity-to-aura-effect-shapeshift/
– Frostling Easy Quest for Outpost (to be confirmed, maybe Village): for the quest with Bards as defenders, a T3 can be given as reward, which seems OP for an Easy Quest. Would need to check the gold value of the reward. I don’t think the reward is influenced by Strong Defender setting, is it? If it is, then maybe SDNR needs to nerf all the reward of all quest reward sets!!…http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/technical-questions-migration-time-immunity-to-aura-effect-shapeshift/
– Ice Queen can move in coastal area thanks to Last Rite of Winter:
Proposed solution: make Water a forbidden terrain to use the ability on
– Does Floating give Cave Crawling to units? Or does it directly make them use only 3 MP UG? Can it be changed?
– Could we make it so that the Spelljammer can be built on Dense Vegetation and maybe transforms the terrain into Barren when cast there?
– Dedicated to xx not affecting Leader <== was this one fixed in v1.25?
- Flash Bomb is set on "walk and hit" or its targetter is incorrect or something like that so:
1/ you can use it in an hex without any enemy IF that hex is within your movement range
2/ the Engineer will then move adjacent to that empty hex within movement range and then cast the Bomb

And
GC48a
29 descriptions and Tome of Wonders pages are updated to correct imprecise or incorrect descriptions. Full list.
 

Rodmar18

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Hello there Hiliadan. I uploaded to the mod's Dropbox a comprehensive list of modifications/requests I submit concerning three files from PBEM&SP Balance mod. They take into account former suggestions that I posted in pages 3 and 4 of late Triumph sub-forum. They should be the last ones I post about this mod, until you add new entries that is. On each case, I give the line to be modified, hopefully this will help you in the correction process.

I have got several more requests about vanilla entries to be eventually corrected/improved by PBEM&SP Balance mod (they are not balance ideas). May I post them here to let them discuted by others, or would you have them better uploaded to the Dropbox as well?

Secondly, I fear I stumbled upon a bug: whenever I use PBEM&SP Balance mod (last UGC beta version from Dropbox) singly, Oyster Reefs structures become unnamed, yet still fully functionnal.


aow3_unnamedOysterReef.jpegaow3_unnamedOysterReef2.jpeg
 

Rodmar18

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I forgot tiny one...
SLAYER_DOUBT - Current description results in: "(unit's movement is lowered) by 18 and morale by -800 [happiness/] for 3 [turn/]. If it fails the unit suffers -50% for 3 [turn/]".
Although this phrasing is not utterly unmeaningful, I'd add some [moveWalk/] replacers here, so that it is more inline with other descriptions, and it shows:
"(unit's movement is lowered) by -18 [moveWalk/] and morale by -800 [happiness/] for 3 [turn/]. If it fails, the unit suffers -50% [moveWalk/] for 3 [turn/]".
(Alternatively, you could use "suffers a ... penalty" phrasing)
 

Rodmar18

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I forgot tiny one...
SLAYER_DOUBT
Indeed, the entry is correctly displayed (with replacers and sign) for the ability. That I described above is what is displayed for the status effect (see screenshot). The correction is already in the todo list, anyways.
aow3_slayersDoubtEffect.jpeg

Suspicion of bug with Dread Reaper's Instant Kill ability: twice in the Liche Castle (two different sites), resisting this ability correctly displays "-40 hp sustained". However, none of my units are hurt! (see screenshot). Could this happen when some resistance is maxed?
aow3_dreadReaperInstantKillNoDamage.jpeg
 

Rodmar18

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Temperate Domain: wrong terrain icon (the one that is displayed when you hover over an affected hex).
aow3_iconTemperateEmpire.jpeg

Deteriorated status: "-8 damage penalty". It should add: "for each damage channel".
aow3_deteriorated.png

Ghouls' visual effect: it looks like when you have two like units in the same army, one alive and one changed to ghoul, the unit pannel doesn't refresh the "ghoul skin" visual effect when you switch between the two versions of the same unit. Refreshing occurs when you close the pannel, or you select another kind of unit. I experienced this with flamers, as seen on the screenshot.
aow3_ghouldDisplayBug2.jpeg aow3_ghoulDisplayBug1.jpeg
 
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Rodmar18

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Necromancer's class building bonuses: they are wrongly listed under net income, whereas they should be bonuses, imho.
Gladis already reported this, but in case there was not much screenshots, here you have.

Bone Cathedral: "Bone Cathedral, +10%" should be listed under bonuses.
City of Ghouls: the correct associated building should be used in place, under bonuses.
aow3_ghoulCityIncome_know2.jpeg aow3_ghoulCityIncome_pop2.jpeg aow3_ghoulCityIncome_prod2.jpeg aow3_ghoulCityIncome_gold2.jpeg

Obelisk of Undeath: shouldn't the status "Cursed" it applies on ennemies be displayed in red on the unit pannel?
aow3_undeathObelisk.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Hiliadan

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Jun 17, 2018
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I have got several more requests about vanilla entries to be eventually corrected/improved by PBEM&SP Balance mod (they are not balance ideas). May I post them here to let them discuted by others, or would you have them better uploaded to the Dropbox as well?
This post is not made for discussions, only for reports of bugs that are specific to the balance mod, or for publishing the changelog, etc. So if you want to discuss things, please post them in the general forum. If it's in English, can be there: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...descriptions-of-abilities-spells-etc.1122064/ If it's in French, I think you can diretly post on the Dropbox as nobody will discuss it. :p

Secondly, I fear I stumbled upon a bug: whenever I use PBEM&SP Balance mod (last UGC beta version from Dropbox) singly, Oyster Reefs structures become unnamed, yet still fully functionnal.
Mmh, is it the case with the main branch?

Temperate Domain: wrong terrain icon (the one that is displayed when you hover over an affected hex).
Ok, the icon for the spell itself is fine though? And the icons for other "Domain" are fine too?

SLAYER_DOUBT - Current description results in: "(unit's movement is lowered) by 18 and morale by -800 [happiness/] for 3 [turn/]. If it fails the unit suffers -50% for 3 [turn/]".
Although this phrasing is not utterly unmeaningful, I'd add some [moveWalk/] replacers here, so that it is more inline with other descriptions, and it shows:
"(unit's movement is lowered) by -18 [moveWalk/] and morale by -800 [happiness/] for 3 [turn/]. If it fails, the unit suffers -50% [moveWalk/] for 3 [turn/]".
(Alternatively, you could use "suffers a ... penalty" phrasing)
Ok, please post that directly in the Dropbox's comments (I think you already did).

Suspicion of bug with Dread Reaper's Instant Kill ability: twice in the Liche Castle (two different sites), resisting this ability correctly displays "-40 hp sustained". However, none of my units are hurt! (see screenshot). Could this happen when some resistance is maxed?
It's not specific to the balance mod, and it's not a bug. The -40 HP is not damage but a max HP reduction. If your unit had 56/70, it will now have 16/30.

Deteriorated status: "-8 damage penalty". It should add: "for each damage channel".
Ok please report here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...descriptions-of-abilities-spells-etc.1122064/

Ghouls' visual effect: it looks like when you have two like units in the same army, one alive and one changed to ghoul, the unit pannel doesn't refresh the "ghoul skin" visual effect when you switch between the two versions of the same unit.
Ok but it's not specific to the balance mod and we can't fix issues like this (which are kind of UI issues), so please post in the general forum to devs to check, though you already know that there is only 1% chance or less of it being fixed.


Ok so issues to investigate for v1.26:
One reported by Iron Knight Fe on the Luckless Halfling mod, in combination with the main branch: apparently when a Halfling hero spawns, other heroes can't use the stat boosts upgrades any more (HP, def, res, 2x attacks). To check.
Temperate Domain: wrong terrain icon (the one that is displayed when you hover over an affected hex).
Bone Cathedral: "Bone Cathedral, +10%" should be listed under bonuses.
City of Ghouls: the correct associated building should be used in place, under bonuses.


Obelisk of Undeath: shouldn't the status "Cursed" it applies on ennemies be displayed in red on the unit pannel?
 

Artfactial

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Hey there,
I found this topic from a while back where you propose to rebalance the Racial Governance progression.
Did anything ever come from it? Can't find any changes in the mod's roster.

Is it even possible to change the RG level criteria? I'd love to have a broader range and further paced RG progression for my mod's races.
 

Hiliadan

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Jun 17, 2018
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We're still working on it and it's taking a LOT of time as it's quite a massive topic.
It's possible to change the racial governance experience required for each of the 5 levels as far as I know but we don't plan to do that. We plan to change each (if necessary) of the RG boosts.
 

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Yes, I can imagine. Going the route of re balancing the boosts would be the most undisruptive.:)
I do hope it is possible to change those xp-values, any idea which RKP to look for?

Edit: got them; they are part of the Global Settings of the Title.rpk however; something I wouldn't really want to temper with having vanilla (and modifications thereof) comparability in mind...
 
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Rodmar18

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Mmh, is it the case with the main branch?
No. I disabled all the mods, loaded and saved a game: Oyster Reefs are displayed as expected. Then, I activated only PBEM (beta) and reloaded same game: any references about Oyster Reefs are gone. Am I really the only one to experience this?!

Ok, the icon for the spell itself is fine though? And the icons for other "Domain" are fine too?
I checked only this one. Icon for the spell looks good enough (shiny, golden); surely an oversight, as I think that the spell's icon is reused for the terrain marker.

Ok, please post that directly in the Dropbox's comments (I think you already did).
This was an oversight of mine. I posted about the confusion betwen spell and status effect (Should they be different? Should they be the same? If so, should they share the very same description?). This one is to correct said description. Well, that's I believe. Please keep this in mind when you review the whole package (in case I'm right).

It's not specific to the balance mod, and it's not a bug. The -40 HP is not damage but a max HP reduction. If your unit had 56/70, it will now have 16/30.
To be frank, I only checked the health bars visually. Lol. I'll check next time I enter a Liche KIng's Castle, though (never sure!).

By the way, the building associated to the City of Ghouls is: Bone Funeral (+15%)
 
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Rodmar18

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Is the following working as intended?

Rogue leader researched Train Bards that is said to change the leader's and heroes' Lesser Charm into Charm.
Leader has now Charm, as expected (I'm not sure but I figure this upgrade (or Lesser Charm) was chosen before the research was completed). (2nd screeshot)
Then, at turn 90, a hero levels up and Lesser Charm is still listed and I select it. (3rd screenshot)

How all of this should work? Only upgrading already chosen Lesser Charm upgrades, and not the future upgrades?
aow3_rogueCharmUpgrade0.jpeg aow3_rogueCharmUpgrade1.jpegaow3_rogueCharmUpgrade2.jpeg
 

Rodmar18

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Also, I just posted about a possible description mess concerning Rot / Rust Strike skills/spells, and Deteriorated / Weakness abilities. Perhaps a clue is in Abilities_DLC3.xml (as Weakness doesn't exist in Abilities.xml, only Weakening and allied), a file I can't open, but this looks as if Rot causes Deteriorated instead of Weakness. Either the description in Spec_Air.xml is wrong, or the spell is bugged.
Deteriorated Undead
 
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Rodmar18

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Dreadnought's Forge Aprons + Fireproofing combo

[EDIT]It's working as intended[/EDIT]

Did someone notice anything? I suspect the Dreadnought's Forge Aprons + Fireproofing combo not quite working as intended.

Until now, I had understood that you need to buy the two upgrades in order to have them both working. Buy only one and you get nothing. I understand this as just splitting the cost in two to avoid a huge single 10 (?) points upgrade (and to delay a 100% Fire protection).

So, my hero already had one of the upgrades and I was about buying the second one. What we see on the screenshot is, that the fire protection is already active before the second upgrade is even bought. I didn't test if the reverse is true as well (this is the natural order of buying them, btw).

aow3_ignifugationBug1.jpeg Forge Aprons = Tabliers de forgeron / Fireproofing = Tenue ignifugée

What's wrong here, the description, the upgrade or the wanted synergy? Or rather, is the synergy only for other units in the hero's army?
 
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DreadReapr

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hey i just casted stiffen spell against a prowler today but i hear no sound, i see effect only
 

Hiliadan

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Rodmar18

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It's working as intended. Forge Aprons works alone. But Fireproofing requires Forge Aprons.
Yes, I checked both English and French texts. It's the former French text that misled me with it's wording ("synergy", that I read as a mutual synergy). Sorry for the false positive.
 

Goliathe

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If you ask me most of the racial governance is pretty balanced as a whole. Every race has a few crap options (as you were talking about the goblin specifically I would honestly say the first 3 military options are not very good).

Why don't you adjust the tables for racial governance XP so that the player starts with 2 unlocks? Furthermore make changes so that soon after his next city he has the third upgrade. And likewise sometime into the mid game he has the 4th option and the final option unlocks by late game?

Compare goblin to elf. Elf economic options 1-2 are amazing as you get more people and more happiness (which directly leads to more money). As you pointed out goblin 2 has a chance at giving you no bonuses (this happens often).

Goblin military options 4-5 are amazing and are balanced out by the fact that military options 1-3 are either buffs to terrible units (irregulars) or in the case of the beetle so late that you are already summoning tier 3 instead. Going goblin 1-3 economic with military 4-5 works out to be about the same as going elf 1-2 economic and military 3-5 upgrades.

I do hope it is possible to change those xp-values, any idea which RKP to look for?

Edit: got them; they are part of the Global Settings of the Title.rpk
I'm wondering how I can't see the global settings when I open title.rpk in the editor.