Patriot Rebels not defecting

[Threshold]

According to rebel_types.txt, patriot rebels will defect firstly to nations of their culture, and secondly to nations of their culture group, if none of the first exist. This is probably confirmed by the fact that I am able to sponsor patriot rebels in Rhodes, Naxos, etc, when there are no Greek cultured nations in existence and Georgia is the only nation in the group.

However, for some reason, these sponsored patriot rebels refuse to defect to Georgia upon winning the sieges of the relevant OPMs-they simply cause the country to break, and then transfer the units back to the country that they were just revolting against...

I've tried going into the save file and editing the rebels, firstly so Georgian culture is their defection target, which didn't work, and secondly by changing their sponsor (their "friend" tag) to Georgia as well-which also didn't work.

What exactly is it that I'm doing wrong, and why aren't my patriot rebels functioning as patriots? Are they unable to defect to Georgia while Georgia is at war? Is it because Georgia is involved in a revolutionary war, having just revolted free? What's going on here?

I'm playing In Nomine, by the way.

 

[Marcus Scipio]

Aren't you confusing them with Nationalists?

 

[Threshold]

Aren't you confusing them with Nationalists?

Don't believe so, no. Nationalists strive for independence; patriots defect. If I funded Nationalists they'd form Byzantium.

To add to the above: Tried getting Georgia out of the two revolutionary wars it's involved in. Patriots still refuse to defect, even when they break the nations in question months after the Georgian peace treaty has been signed (which by the way had nothing to do with the nations that are under rebel siege).

Again, what on earth is going on here, and more importantly, how do I fix it?

 

[Dauth]

Its much more efficient to break a nation, you need to get rebels controlling the capital too.

 

[Threshold]

Its much more efficient to break a nation, you need to get rebels controlling the capital too.

Please read above-these are OPMs (The Knights, Cyprus, Naxos). The problem is that when they're breaking, the rebels aren't doing anything-they're actually transferring the rebel troops back to the country they were just sieging.

 

[brifbates]

Please read above-these are OPMs (The Knights, Cyprus, Naxos). The problem is that when they're breaking, the rebels aren't doing anything-they're actually transferring the rebel troops back to the country they were just sieging.

This is because patriots take time for a province to defect-something like 18 months-2 years or more mtth-while a nation breaking happens very quickly when it is 100% rebel occupied. There is really no good way to get an OPM province other than conquest or diplo-annexing it

 

[Threshold]

This is because patriots take time for a province to defect-something like 18 months-2 years or more mtth-while a nation breaking happens very quickly when it is 100% rebel occupied. There is really no good way to get an OPM province other than conquest or diplo-annexing it

I was under the impression that the defection timer was allowed to be bypassed for an OPM. I have in past games been able to get, say, Athens, with its one province, to defect with patriot rebels-but whether those were naturally spawned or generated via my spies, I couldn't say for sure, and there was in fact a Greek nation for the province to defect to at the time-myself.

Is this also expected to be a problem if I spawn Nationalist rebels there, to cause them to reform the Byzantines?

I can't very well diploannex them-I'm playing the Ottomans this time around. And I'd really rather not pay the infamy cost for annexing.

 

[Atlanteax]

the OPMs will defect once the broken nation is *at Peace*

 

[Threshold]

the OPMs will defect once the broken nation is *at Peace*

Not an issue, the OPMs in question haven't been at war with anyone in over a decade, and even then it was only Cyprus who got declared on by Georgia the last time they existed-The Knights and Naxos haven't been involved in a war since game start. Also, as I mentioned above, I already tried manually peacing Georgia out of its wars, to see if the defection target needed to be at peace as well, and that didn't work either.

Unless you're suggesting I need two sets of rebels for each OPM, one to break them and one to cause them to defect, which could very well be the case I suppose, but only if there's some restriction on them breaking too fast for them not to be able to break a second time in rapid succession rather than defecting.

 

[Atlanteax]

Okay, I re-read your original question, and I believe that they're not defecting because the province owner is currently Greek (ie Greek Achaea instead of Latin Achaea).

Unfortunately some prior rebels broke the OPM and it converted to Greek, pre-empting your use of Patriotic Rebels to flip it.

 

[Threshold]

Okay, I re-read your original question, and I believe that they're not defecting because the province owner is currently Greek (ie Greek Achaea instead of Latin Achaea).

Unfortunately some prior rebels broke the OPM and it converted to Greek, pre-empting your use of Patriotic Rebels to flip it.

That's not the problem, either. The Knights is still non-Greek with a Greek province, as are Cyprus and Naxos. I wouldn't be able to spawn patriot rebels by use of spies if they had culture-shifted, or previously broken. None of the three have had rebels for the entire game, with the lone exception of a stack of Byzantine Nationalists that rose up in Rhodes that I crushed after being granted MA through them, since I was hoping to force them all to defect to Georgia later on.

Having progressed in my game without this, I have noticed that when Ak Koyunlu and their single province broke to Qara Koyunlu Nationalists that Georgia exported to them after eating Qara in a revolutionary war (the revolutionary war with the Golden Horde is still ongoing), they similarly did not form the new nation of Qara Koyunlu, which leads me to believe that yes, I am going to have this issue if I try to sponsor Byzantine Nationalists in the above mentioned OPMs, and the reason is that they're OPMs and aren't allowed to lose their last province to breaking.

But I'd swear I've accomplished this before, with Athens.

 

[Threshold]

the OPMs will defect once the broken nation is *at Peace*

Just realized that this, or rather, the opposite of it, is actually the solution to my problem. Since nations can only break while they're at peace, but provinces can defect regardless (provided they're not actively under siege), all I need to do is 1) declare war 2) sponsor rebels and 3) wait for them to defect. Granted, I'll need to keep the war from auto-whitepeacing, but blockades will work for that-or fighting the senior partner.

I knew I'd accomplished this before, just couldn't remember how.

Edit: This isn't working, either. Naxos has been rebel-occupied for over 5 years now, while at war, and they haven't defected-but if I sign peace with them, they immediately break and take ownership of the rebel troops. I know provinces can defect while the owner is at war; I've had it happen to me. So is there an exception for OPMs, or what is going on?