Patriarch Authority events (and I think pious evnets) rarely happen now?

[Dorevai]

PA is too rare. Piety events happen much more often, and can give +25/-25. Piety seems fine. If PA had bigger gains/losses, the infrequency might be acceptable. The -PA option is much stronger than it used to be, so that's probably why they're more rare, but now the +PA option is insignificant and hard to attain.

 

[Panzerschiffe]

Given the lack of strong mechanics like the Curia and Muslim Piety, Orthodox nations were already at a disadvantage until they could actually get PA up. Haven't played a game as an Orthodox nation since the patch but this sounds like it hurts Orthodox nations even more.

 

[nicechinos]

Given the lack of strong mechanics like the Curia and Muslim Piety, Orthodox nations were already at a disadvantage until they could actually get PA up. Haven't played a game as an Orthodox nation since the patch but this sounds like it hurts Orthodox nations even more.

Yeah, 100% PA takes hundreds of years to achieve.

 

[Thrake]

Considering PA is nearly a pure bonus, a nerf to their frequency is a nerf to orthodox.
Why is islam never nerfed?

Islam "nerf" makes sense to me. You could sit at 100 piety while keep DOWing Muslims all the time because there were so many events to freely decrease or increase it that the concept of "piety" in itself made no sense while there is an interesting dicotomy offered by the game mechanics. Orthodox, not so much as it's only driven by (annoying) events. As I read, it's good they added more modifiers than just +/-authority to make choices more significant. To br fair though, I simply used to stick at 0 authority all along because the bonuses aren't really good while -33% tax isn't appealing at all.

 

[nicechinos]

Islam "nerf" makes sense to me. You could sit at 100 piety while keep DOWing Muslims all the time because there were so many events to freely decrease or increase it that the concept of "piety" in itself made no sense while there is an interesting dicotomy offered by the game mechanics. Orthodox, not so much as it's only driven by (annoying) events. As I read, it's good they added more modifiers than just +/-authority to make choices more significant. To br fair though, I simply used to stick at 0 authority all along because the bonuses aren't really good while -33% tax isn't appealing at all.

Bonuses are insanely good. + 33% mp, + 2 missionary strength and - 2 unrest make the game possible without wasting an idea group on humanist/religious and to build a pretty large empire.
Tax doesn't really make sense once a nation grows out of its cultural union. Not many cultures get accepted if the primary culture is large (such as Russian) so the permanent tax malus in provinces with non-accepted cultures reduces relevance of PA tax malus anyway.

 

[Thrake]

Bonuses are insanely good. + 33% mp, + 2 missionary strength and - 2 unrest make the game possible without wasting an idea group on humanist/religious and to build a pretty large empire.
Tax doesn't really make sense once a nation grows out of its cultural union. Not many cultures get accepted if the primary culture is large (such as Russian) so the permanent tax malus in provinces with non-accepted cultures reduces relevance of PA tax malus anyway.

-2 unrest is only in orthodox provinces. Missionary strength isn't bad, but tbh one can really expand without it and yet sit on 80% religious unity or something. I do it in every playthrough actually. About tax, going from 75% down to 42% is pretty much halving it. Manpower is good but with money, I can either get mercs or build army line buildings.

 

[DominusNovus]

I'm just happy that the events give you a trade-off now, so that you actually have some reason to *not* raise it.

 

[nicechinos]

-2 unrest is only in orthodox provinces. Missionary strength isn't bad, but tbh one can really expand without it and yet sit on 80% religious unity or something. I do it in every playthrough actually. About tax, going from 75% down to 42% is pretty much halving it. Manpower is good but with money, I can either get mercs or build army line buildings.

AOW really squeezes balance into trade and production. There's little reason to build temples instead of constables.
I do that as well but I do convert a lot without religious or humanist and do fine.

 

[MarkS00N]

Maybe the religious idea (the one that increase papal influence and fervor, I forget the name) could have effect on increasing the amount of PA increase/decrease?

 

[stevefs]

Maybe the events could stay as-is but if you could buy PA up (but not down?) for monarch points. 100AMP for +5PA would be about right - you can get it up slowly if events aren't cooperating, but buying 0-100 for 2000 would hurt, and couldn't be done all at once because of the MP cap.

 

[nicechinos]

Maybe the events could stay as-is but if you could buy PA up (but not down?) for monarch points. 100AMP for +5PA would be about right - you can get it up slowly if events aren't cooperating, but buying 0-100 for 2000 would hurt, and couldn't be done all at once because of the MP cap.

25 piety costs 20 admin. Where is the balance?

 

[ahyangyi]

So just played as Ottomans 1.8 and had 100% piety within the first 10 years of the game, why is it that PA takes like 400 years to max? this is completely ridiculous and PA needs a huge buff to be on par with piety.

You retain 25% of your piety after succession, while you retain all your PA after succession.

Also, if you always choose the -PA options you get much better bonuses than muslims: free -inflation, free monarch power, free money (scaled to yearly income), free stability.

 

[Kombatdoctr]

Bonuses are insanely good. + 33% mp, + 2 missionary strength and - 2 unrest make the game possible without wasting an idea group on humanist/religious and to build a pretty large empire.
Tax doesn't really make sense once a nation grows out of its cultural union. Not many cultures get accepted if the primary culture is large (such as Russian) so the permanent tax malus in provinces with non-accepted cultures reduces relevance of PA tax malus anyway.

Picking up Religious ideas is NOT a waste, converting Muslim provinces without it takes too long, as at most you'll only have two missioniares (1 base and 1 from DOF), both of which will be slow because you're missing that 3% extra missionary strength, and the cheaper stability + the frequent events with +1 stability are too good to pass up as someone like Russia or Vijanagar

 

[ahyangyi]

Picking up Religious ideas is NOT a waste, converting Muslim provinces without it takes too long, as at most you'll only have two missioniares (1 base and 1 from DOF), both of which will be slow because you're missing that 3% extra missionary strength, and the cheaper stability + the frequent events with +1 stability are too good to pass up as someone like Russia or Vijanagar

And... playing as Russian I figure out the best way to deal with Tartars/Urals/Karelia Finns is to remove culture convert them.

 

[Kombatdoctr]

And... playing as Russian I figure out the best way to deal with Tartars/Urals/Karelia Finns is to remove culture convert them.

Yeah that too, culture conversion is vital to Russia, 25% cheaper culture conversion synergies perfectly with Russia's 3rd NI.

 

[stevefs]

25 piety costs 20 admin. Where is the balance?

That's by event, right (unless piety changed in 1.8 so that buying it up or down at will is allowed)? You can't simply buy up piety 25x4=100 for 80 admin, like buying down WE or inflation. The price to buy up or down piety outside of events should be similar to the proposed price for PA.

 

[Hamor]

I think we're getting a big off topic here, I'd really like Wiz or someone to reply and state the logic behind the super rare PA events? like I said before the fact that it takes 10 years to get 100 piety and about 300-400 years to get 100 PA makes absolutely ZERO sense, Russia was nerfed hard in the AoW patch with the culture groups and LA cap on colonized provinces. This really needs to be remedied and I hope PI can use some common sense and make PA gaining on even grounds with muslim piety gain.

 

[nicechinos]

That's by event, right (unless piety changed in 1.8 so that buying it up or down at will is allowed)? You can't simply buy up piety 25x4=100 for 80 admin, like buying down WE or inflation. The price to buy up or down piety outside of events should be similar to the proposed price for PA.

It is not allowed but this event still popups quite often. In addition to this event there are tons of events where you can increase piety for free of for paying money. And these are much more frequent than PA event.
What's even less balanced is that piety has strong bonuses at -100 while PA has exactly 0 at 0 PA.

 

[nicechinos]

I think we're getting a big off topic here, I'd really like Wiz or someone to reply and state the logic behind the super rare PA events? like I said before the fact that it takes 10 years to get 100 piety and about 300-400 years to get 100 PA makes absolutely ZERO sense, Russia was nerfed hard in the AoW patch with the culture groups and LA cap on colonized provinces. This really needs to be remedied and I hope PI can use some common sense and make PA gaining on even grounds with muslim piety gain.

The logic is that they wanted to remove cheesy strategy of player staying at zero PA and receiving all these free bonuses every year.

 

[nicechinos]

Picking up Religious ideas is NOT a waste, converting Muslim provinces without it takes too long, as at most you'll only have two missioniares (1 base and 1 from DOF), both of which will be slow because you're missing that 3% extra missionary strength, and the cheaper stability + the frequent events with +1 stability are too good to pass up as someone like Russia or Vijanagar

And another one from owning Jerusalem and another one from Rome, one more from Mecca.
It is entirely possible (and quite convenient frankly) to stay without religious all game. It is the only way to go if someone wants to have permanent 100 army tradition and naval superiority over Spain/GB (hence religious is "a waste"). I converted Constantinopole without religious ideas by simply taking all the missionary strengths decisions (negative tolerance and unrest), maxing out PA and occasional hiring of inquisitor. There is no rush to convert heathens as was the case in 1.7 where revolts were spontaneous and repetitive.
Don't quote me wrong please. All in all religious is a great idea group, especially for Orthodox countries. But it's not needed to build large empire quickly because of the new rebel system. Besides it was highly desirable in 1.7 when the whole Tatar culture was under the same culture and these lands had a number of very rich provinces (Samara, Crimea, Kharkov, Buzuluk, etc.), which were both desirable and difficult to convert. Russia was rewarded by eating all this by accepting Tatars quickly and receiving all these lands with no malus. Not the case anymore. There is little incentive to go after hordes before PLC/Sweden are taken down completely because these have sweet same cultural group/ religion lands or Finnish lands which could be fed to the orthodox vassal.
Tatar lands are pretty poor these days and could be best acquired through vassalisation, which doesn't result nationalism. In additiona you are free to use vassal horde's awesome CBs.