Patriachates: a flavour mechanic for orthodox and coptic religions

Patriachates: a flavour mechanic for orthodox and coptic religions

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Basileios Makedon

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Ok, this post is going to be long, so prepare yourselves

Orthodox Christianity. One of the biggest religions in the world, adopted by very important countries like Russia or Byzantium. And how it’s represented in the game? 5 events and a lineal mechanic that sometimes doesn’t make any sense. In CK2 the patriarchs were represented well, but not in EU4. So I suggest this mechanic to add flavour to orthodoxy and maybe Coptic, because Coptic also had patriarchs:

Different Patriarchs and Patriarch control:

Obviously, there wasn’t a Patriarch in every orthodox nation in game. Perm hadn’t a Patriarch. So I think that there should be determinate patriarch tied to certain provinces. I think there should be the following at game start, not for historical reasons, just for gameplay reasons:

-Patriarch of Constantinople: Constantinople

-Patriarch of Bulgaria: Tarnovo

-Patriarch of Serbia: Srbija

-Patriarch of Wallachia: Muntenia

-Patriarch of Georgia: Kartli

-Patriarch of Ruthenia: Kiev

-Patriarch of Russia: Moscow

The nation who control a patriarch province will control the patriarch and will gain access to some special action explained below.

Patriarch influence:

This is a value tied to a Patriarch, and not to a nation. It increases or decreases monthly, depending if the controller is orthodox, the province is orthodox, and the tolerance of the true faith/heresies/pagans of the controller. Obviously also with events. Maximum is 100 per patriarch.

Ecumenical Patriarch

The Ecumenical Patriarch is, in gameplay terms, the main Patriarch and has special actions that affect every patriarch. The Ecumenical Patriarch is the patriarch of Constantinople. But if a nation controls 4 non-Ecumenical Patriarchs, their capital is a Patriarch and they are orthodox, they can reclaim the Ecumenical Patriarchy and their capital Patriarch will transform into the Ecumenical Patriarch.

Patriarch Autonomy

There are 3 status: low, medium, high. At high, you get a discount in all actions except the steal province from another Patriarch and a relations penalty with orthodox countries. In medium there are no effects. At low, the Ecumenical Patriarch can use your PI to perform their own actions. The Ecumenical Patriarch has no autonomy. The status is decided by distance to the Ecumenical Patriarch and relative strength of the controllers.

Patriarch Regions

Each Patriarch have some provinces assigned to them. Those provinces give a small part of their income to their Patriarch Controller if they are not controlled by him, so having big regions is a boost for small Patriarch Controller. If you control a patriarch, his regions controlled by you will have lower unrest and higher taxes. Provinces of uncontrolled patriarchs will have lower taxes and higher unrest. Those benefits and penalties only happen if province is orthodox.


Special actions

All patriarchs:

-Take province from other patriarch: Cost: 100 P.I., opinion penalty with controller.

-Start theological dispute: Cost 50 PI, gain prestige, opinion penalty with a random patriarch controller.

-Appoint new bishops: Cost 50 PI, general autonomy reduction in orthodox provinces.

-Reform the local rite: Cost 60 PI, +2 ToTF for 7 years, -1 unrest in orthodox provinces belonging to that patriarch, opinion penalty with ecumenical controller.

-Regulate missionary activity: Cost 75 PI, +2% missionary strength for 7 years.

-Claim Ecumenical Patriarchy by force: Cost: Total of 200 PI, gain “Enforce Ecumenical Reclaim” casus belli against Ecumenical Controller

-Claim Ecumenical Patriarchy peacefully: Explained in Ecumenical Patriarch section

-Move patriarch to capital: Cost: 75 PI

Ecumenical Patriarch:

-Create Patriarchate: Cost:100 PI, you select the main province and 5 or more provinces to their patriarch region. Opinion penalty with patriarch controllers that you steal provinces. You have to have "King" rank.

-Remove Patriarchate: Cost 100 PI, massive opinion penalty with the controller and +5 unrest in orthodox provinces.

-Declare the Pope heretic: Cost: 75 PI, opinion penalty with catholic nations, opinion bonus with non-catholic christians, prestige bonus

-Give province to patriarch: Cost: 80PI

Also generic actions are just half of the cost

Uncared patriarchs

In non orthodox nations, managing the orthodox religious politics was not a priority and the patriarchs who lived there could see their power dramatically reduced. To show this, patriarchs in non-orthodox nations will have the "neglected" status by default, reducing their PI gain, making them unable to perform actions and making their autonomy low. If as a non-orthodox nations you want to care about the patriarch, you can change status, with a MP, money, ToTTF, local autonomy and piety cost.

Notes

-Non-orthodox provinces can be patriarch provinces and can form part of a patriarch region, but they won’t provide any benefit of penalty.

-Non-orthodox nations can be a patriarch controller.

-You gain more PI if the patriarch is controlled by a pagan than an heretic

-Control patriarchs gives prestige.

-You gain more PI if you are a theocracy.

-You can't create patriarchates in non-orthodox provinces

Coptic mechanics: -No longer needed, since they *luckily* got mechanics in 1.18-

The copts also had patriarchates, so this system could work for them as well. There would be a few changes:

-Ecumenical Patriarch renamed Coptic Pope

-The starting patriarchs would be in Ethiopia, Alexandria, Armenia, Nubia and Syria

-You can build monasteries in your provinces. A monastery will have a possitive effect on your PI, devotion and income, but a negative effect on you manpower.

-Since the Coptic religion was more closed and there are few Coptic nations, there would be some special actions to invest your PI:

-Confiscate art from churches: 50 PI, 25 prestige

-Create church tax: 60 PI, +30% income for 5 years

-Make the patriarch swear fealty to the king: 55 PI, +30 legitimacy

-Use the patriarch to encourage people: Only in wars. 75 PI, +20% manpower recovery for 5 years, -0,1 war exhaustion each month for 5 years.

-Calm Coptic vassals: 70 PI, -25% liberty desire of Coptic vassals

Pentarchy

This is a special mechanic for both orthodox and Coptic religions.

At the start there are no orthodox patriarchs in Rome, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria ( I know, they existed, but they were almost irrelevant ) and there are no Coptic patriarchs in Jerusalem, Constantinople and Rome. But if you conquer any of these provinces, the patriarch will spawn automatically and he will receive his historical region. If a Coptic nation restores Jerusalem, for example, an orthodox nation won’t be able to do it and viceversa.

Mending the schism:

Like CK2, you should be able to mend the schism in all old Christian religions:

Orthodox: You must have 4 pentarchy provinces, including Rome and Constantinople. Requires Empire Rank.

Catholic: Constantinople must be Catholic, you must control 5 patriarchates ( Coptic or Orthodox ) Requires Empire Rank.

Coptic: Control Rome and Constantinople, every province in a Coptic patriarch’s region must be Coptic, control 2 orthodox patriarchs. Also requires Empire Rank.

When the schism is mended, all Christian provinces in nations with your religion will convert, other Christians will receive a decision to convert, and nations that border you will get an event that allows them to convert ( Protestants included ).

Idea changes and custom setup:

Ideas:


In historical orthodox countries, there should be national idea increasing PI in controlled patriarchs. For example:

-Substitue Russian idea " Abolish the Mestnichestvo " Instead put the idea " Sustainer of orthodoxy" that gives +3.5 yearly PI and maybe +1 tolerance of the true faith.

-Byzantine idea " Restore the Ecumenical Patriarchy " should give +2 missionary strength instead of 3. To replace the missing point, they could add +5 yearly PI.

Of course more orthodox countries could have ideas like this, but I can't think more now. Any suggestion is welcome :)

Custom setup:

As the patriarchs are tied to certain provinces, the custom setup would be problematic. If there are no orthodox countries, there would be no patriarchs. If there are, we will get patriarchs in all orthodox capitals. There have to be at least 4 patriarchs. If there aren't 4 orthodox capitals, other random orthodox provinces would get one assigned randomly. The EP would also be random, if possible in Constantinople.
This would work the same to coptic, with the minimum of 3 patriarchs and Coptic Pope in Alexandria if possible.

Archievements:
Of course, when a religious mechanic is released, there should be at least one archievement for it. These are my thoughts:
-My religion: Control every patriarch as an orthodox nation.
-The forgotten strike back: Mend the schism as a coptic nation
-The 4th crusade: As catholic Venice, mend the schism
-We are the true orthodox: As Russia, let the patriarch of Moscow become the Ecumanical Patriarch
-Cyril and Methodius: Convert Bohemia to orthodoxy

Now I think this post is finished, but if you want to add something just tell it

Please say what you think about this :)
 
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Lemont Elwood

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I quite like this idea. The bonuses need to be strong, though, to keep Orthodox/Coptic a good choice against other religions.
 

Basileios Makedon

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I quite like this idea. The bonuses need to be strong, though, to keep Orthodox/Coptic a good choice against other religions.
Thanks! Of course, I can't stand when the hordes take over Russia and the orthodox religion is wiped out
 

Mattius

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Current orthodox is pathetic and really lacking (within the mechanics of the game, of course) and I support these ideas. There should be something super awesome for restoring the pentarchy too.
 

johnleeyx

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What if a Orthodox country annexed a Coptic patriarchate? There should be an option to forcefully convert them.
 

Basileios Makedon

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What if a Orthodox country annexed a Coptic patriarchate? There should be an option to forcefully convert them.
You can convert them if more than the half of the Coptic patriarchs are controlled by an orthodox nation and viceversa.
 

Basileios Makedon

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Major patriarchates (Ecumenical for Orthodox and Alexandrian for Coptic) should not be able to convert, If exist not-small countries (eg. +50BT, Empire Rank or 3 Kingdom Rank) with a particular religion.
Yes
 

BrokenSky

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So PA slowly increases over time. How about a small %bonus to national tax and manpower based on Patriarch authority for that patriarch's controller, if they are Orthodox / Coptic. Requirement to create a new patriarch is based on rank: No.Patriarch < 3, any orthodox country can create one. for <5 need kingdom. for 5 or more need empire. possibly. Patriarchs are removed if the country is controlled by a heathen and has heathen religion. The main Patriarch starts as the Patriarch of Constantinople but changes to the patriarch with the highest authority if the main Patriarch stops being applicable (e.g. Constantinople is controlled by Ottomans (Sunni) and is converted to Sunni). Or something?

Basically they apply passive admin and relation (to other nations which are under the influence of a patriarch you control) buffs based on authority, but authority can be reduced by using special actions which cost authority to gain an immediate bonus.
 

Basileios Makedon

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So PA slowly increases over time. How about a small %bonus to national tax and manpower based on Patriarch authority for that patriarch's controller, if they are Orthodox / Coptic. Requirement to create a new patriarch is based on rank: No.Patriarch < 3, any orthodox country can create one. for <5 need kingdom. for 5 or more need empire. possibly. Patriarchs are removed if the country is controlled by a heathen and has heathen religion. The main Patriarch starts as the Patriarch of Constantinople but changes to the patriarch with the highest authority if the main Patriarch stops being applicable (e.g. Constantinople is controlled by Ottomans (Sunni) and is converted to Sunni). Or something?

Basically they apply passive admin and relation (to other nations which are under the influence of a patriarch you control) buffs based on authority, but authority can be reduced by using special actions which cost authority to gain an immediate bonus.
Create a patriarch should have Rank requierements to stop an OPM to spam multiple patriarchs to gain more taxes, although since the ecumenical patriarch is in Constantinople that would be difficult :)
 

BrokenSky

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Oh right I assumed you'd only be allowed to have 1 / province and that they'd have a minimum apart distance or similar?
 

Basileios Makedon

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Current orthodox is pathetic and really lacking (within the mechanics of the game, of course) and I support these ideas. There should be something super awesome for restoring the pentarchy too.
Big bonus to prestige and legitimacy maybe
 

Starki113r

Basilèus tón Basileuónton
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It's a step in the right direction. However, I have a few suggestions.

One: "Mend the Great Schism" isn't really viable. Pious Catholics or reformers would never accept it in this time frame; even in CK2 it was a stretch, but the differences, divides, and bitterness of the past weren't as pronounced back then. By 1444, the only 'mending' was the efforts, unsuccessfully, of the Byzantine Emperors to convert to Catholicism to stave off extinction.

Two: There should be two modifiers. Patriarchal Influence is nation-wide, and only affects Orthodox nations with an autocephalous Patriarch. Moral Authority is global, and comes from the power of the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pentarchs, and the number and/or development level of Orthodox nations. If the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pentarchs are controlled by an Orthodox nation, you gain bonuses to your missionary strength, ToTF, and morale. If they are not, you get jack-sh*t. This promotes cooperation between the endangered species in this game that is Orthodoxy, and gives an immediate short term bonus to them. Nations without a Patriarch can spend max Influence on gaining one.

Three: The Ecumenical Patriarch never, ever, EVER leaves Constantinople. As it was and is in real life, so must it be in-game.

Four: Only one autocephalous Patriarch per nation, unless they hold the Pentarchs, which even then only offers one-fifth the bonus of a normal Patriarch. This is both for balancing Patriarchal Authority and to place more emphasis on the Doctrine of Two Swords, which leads to...

Five: The Doctrine of Two Swords, known to the Byzantines as Symphonia, a Decision which increases stability by 1, lowers Stability Cost and monthly Patriarchal Influence, but at the immediate cost of Prestige and Admin Points, and permanent increases unrest of 1. Creates dynamic events related to maintaining or revoking the Doctrine. Decision and events to Revoke the Doctrine of Two Swords grant Prestige at the cost of 2 stability and an immediate loss of all Patriachal Influence.

That's all I've got right now.
 
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