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*When a tributary country cancels its payment to its overlord, it should also break any alliance it would have with it. In fact, cancelling tributes should be a common cause for wars.
Well, those problems can be easily fixable by other means. I'd rather see some bugfixes for other things, like autoclosing trade window & not beeing able to colonize because of the vassal with higher influence...
Things I'd like to see that seem feasible to add to a patch:
1. Diploannexation.
2. Creation of vassals from owned provinces. Currently, the only way to do this is by allowing barbarians to take the province and then relying on them being rational enough to realise that your massive army in the neighbouring province will crush them if they don't accept vassalage. This doesn't always go to plan.
3. Forced release of vassals as part of peace, similar to EU2/3. If I have independence guaranteed for a Greek minor and they get snapped up by Macedon and annexed, I want to be able to force Macedon to release them again. It would also be nice to force the enemy to break tributes to/from other factions.
I'm sure there are other things I'd like, but those are the ones I continually wish I had the ability to do while playing the game...
1. Diploannexation.
2. Creation of vassals from owned provinces. Currently, the only way to do this is by allowing barbarians to take the province and then relying on them being rational enough to realise that your massive army in the neighbouring province will crush them if they don't accept vassalage. This doesn't always go to plan.
3. Forced release of vassals as part of peace, similar to EU2/3. If I have independence guaranteed for a Greek minor and they get snapped up by Macedon and annexed, I want to be able to force Macedon to release them again. It would also be nice to force the enemy to break tributes to/from other factions.
I'm sure there are other things I'd like, but those are the ones I continually wish I had the ability to do while playing the game...
Patches are only supposed to fix what's broken (or perhaps imbalanced), not add new features (such as diploannex).
The latter is what expansions are for, and one of those has just been announced as in development.
For fixes, definitely the autoclosing trade window. Also fixing the Barbarian level increase event which in error had the text description commented out.
Items like that are needed to be fixed ( I know I missed a couple more reported for 1.3 ).
The issue of a province never being able to be colonized because a tribute-paying nation has highest influence over it but can never colonize it because it pays tribute making another nation who can colonize that province unable to does seem like an error to me as well.
The latter is what expansions are for, and one of those has just been announced as in development.
For fixes, definitely the autoclosing trade window. Also fixing the Barbarian level increase event which in error had the text description commented out.
Items like that are needed to be fixed ( I know I missed a couple more reported for 1.3 ).
The issue of a province never being able to be colonized because a tribute-paying nation has highest influence over it but can never colonize it because it pays tribute making another nation who can colonize that province unable to does seem like an error to me as well.
Both 1.2 and 1.3 have added features, new events and diplo/intrigue options, so they can be more than bugfixers. And of course they should modify game mechanics that although not buggy, do not give good results.
I'd like the game rules changed to avoid unreasonable alliances that the AI is able to do (ally with countries of different culture, whith a casus belli between them, bad relations and a history of wars between them). What usually happens is that X country goes to war with Y, until X makes Y pay tribute (it seems that is very easy for AI countries to get tribute from others as a result for wars), after a few years Y accepts X alliance, because AI seems prone to accept alliances between countries with tributary relationship, although it's been consequence of wars, and ignoring different culture, caus belli and core provinces conflicts. Then, since alliances never expire, this crazy alliance lasts till the end of the game, even if Y later cancels its tribute payment. I've seen this happen between Egypt and Carthage and Egypt and Seleucids. So countries that are eternal enemies with border disputes forget about their cores and are close friends forever.
Things that I suggest:
1) Make tribute harder to achieve via military victory, at least for the AI. The score is escalated with the monthly amount, but the minimum amount is quite easy to achieve and the political and diplo effects of tribute are the same that if they paid 10 times more. The effects of paying tribute have been increased (no colonization), but the score for it has not.
2) Make alliances much harder to achieve for human and AI countries, even with tribute relationship if they have casus belli between them.
3) Change some rules so alliances don't last forever (they just cancel if one country does not answer to its allies' call for arms, which will never happen between huge empires with big armies)
-3.1: Alliances and all treaties including trade should be canceled when a country is overrun by barbarians
-3.2: Alliances and military access should be canceled when a country is overrun by rebels.
-3.3: Alliances between a tributary country and its master should be canceled when the tributary cancels its tribute.
-3.4: Alliances should expire each 25-50 years.
I'd like the game rules changed to avoid unreasonable alliances that the AI is able to do (ally with countries of different culture, whith a casus belli between them, bad relations and a history of wars between them). What usually happens is that X country goes to war with Y, until X makes Y pay tribute (it seems that is very easy for AI countries to get tribute from others as a result for wars), after a few years Y accepts X alliance, because AI seems prone to accept alliances between countries with tributary relationship, although it's been consequence of wars, and ignoring different culture, caus belli and core provinces conflicts. Then, since alliances never expire, this crazy alliance lasts till the end of the game, even if Y later cancels its tribute payment. I've seen this happen between Egypt and Carthage and Egypt and Seleucids. So countries that are eternal enemies with border disputes forget about their cores and are close friends forever.
Things that I suggest:
1) Make tribute harder to achieve via military victory, at least for the AI. The score is escalated with the monthly amount, but the minimum amount is quite easy to achieve and the political and diplo effects of tribute are the same that if they paid 10 times more. The effects of paying tribute have been increased (no colonization), but the score for it has not.
2) Make alliances much harder to achieve for human and AI countries, even with tribute relationship if they have casus belli between them.
3) Change some rules so alliances don't last forever (they just cancel if one country does not answer to its allies' call for arms, which will never happen between huge empires with big armies)
-3.1: Alliances and all treaties including trade should be canceled when a country is overrun by barbarians
-3.2: Alliances and military access should be canceled when a country is overrun by rebels.
-3.3: Alliances between a tributary country and its master should be canceled when the tributary cancels its tribute.
-3.4: Alliances should expire each 25-50 years.
I am new to PI games but I alredy know that Paradox does not follow such rules. Patches give new features, expansions give many features is their moto.
That sounds more like there should be an option to execute / imprison the diplomat/enyoy on peace offers just as there is for other missions.Scipio Aemilius said:
If Greeks are a better case, then how often did a Greek state assassinate a general or provincial govener of another state?
I'm sure that the history of Numidia or Egypt or Seleucids is plenty of examples of assasinations. I'm not an expert in the matter though, and I only know of Yugurta's ones.
But anyways they were not so easy end cheap to do as in EU:R. Assasinations should cost money, have stability hits, need more time to execute or whatever rules are needed to make them harder and not so common.
But anyways they were not so easy end cheap to do as in EU:R. Assasinations should cost money, have stability hits, need more time to execute or whatever rules are needed to make them harder and not so common.
Nyrael said:
Paradox does not do this to give us something extra. Unfortunately, they do it because their games are frequently terrible beta versions out of the box and simply patching errors would be insufficient to bring the game anywhere close to what it promised to be. I have come to accept their new business model; so as long as they continue to do so and the expansions - which usually are what finally brings the games out of the beta stage - remain reasonably priced, I will be satisfied.
Most developer teams that release game too early don't do this. Most games need at least one, usually two patches to be playable.
Yes, Iugurtha (his latin name) is a great example of this. He assassinated his first step-brother and besieged his second so he could inherit Numidia for himself. He bribed most roman magistrates that were send against him and probably set up a few unsuccessful assassination attemps.nachinus said:
As for greeks, trust me, it happened every year or so, but since the end of the hellenistic era is mostly known from Rome's point of view with Rome being the center of attention (the only reliable source for most of this period outside of Rome is Polybius, and even if it's an infinitesimely small fragment of his work that reached us, it's still quite massive to read), most characters being assassinated are unknown obscure movement leaders (pro or anti-macedon/ptolemies/seleucids/achean/aetolian, etc) in matter of internal greek politics. Egyptian chancelor, Seleucid councelor, greek city-state magistrate, etc. But it happened VERY often (but not as often as in the game, not every month).sagji said:
It's also true assassinations were NOT cheap! I clearly remember a case where a Macedonian king paid a hefty amount of money to have a greek leader protected and escorted out of a siege situation he was in. The mercenary (a Cretan) then betrayed the king of Macedon and went to his ennemies, asked for another huge sumn of money to have that poor dude killed (This brought an acid racist remark from Polybius: Never trust a Cretan, they are all vile liars). He set up a false siege rescue and when he was out of the besieged city, his gang jumped on the victim and they murdered him. This is one specific example I remember of, simply because it was more memorable than "X got Y killed" or "X died in obscure circumstances".
LaBretonniere said:
I don't know... please don't take it personally, but I don't see many of these problems as "extras", I see most of them as plain old broken features.
E.g., the women... essentially it's a broken feature. It seems to offer an extra option, but in practice that option just doesn't work. It seems to mix up two fundamentally different concepts:
A) famous women, which were actually influential and had an impact on politics and history, and
B) women as in, someone who can give birth to a baby.
Rome had over 100,000 of the latter in 474 AUC. So what the heck sense does it make for my rich consul to be unable to find a wife at all? By the Lex Canuleia from 445 BC (i.e., almost two centuries before the start of the game), intermarriage between plebs and patricians was allowed, so he should even be able to just find a pretty commoner and marry her, if all else fails.
Worse yet, if you do manage to get some families going, producing more B, automatically also produces ahistorically many A.
E.g., the males. What the heck sense does it make to be able to assassinate every single named character in Rome or Carthage, to the point where they can't even name a pontifex or put someone in charge of a division? There were again well over 100,000 males in Rome at the start of the game. Even if you discriminate against plebeians, there were tens of thousands of eligible patricians.
But even that doesn't make any sense, since since 287 BC plebeians could at least theoretically be elected to almost any office. Plus, hey, if someone actually managed to assassinate every single patrician, don't tell me that the plebs would go "damn, we can't elect a consul and a pontifex maximus because there are no eligible guys left. Oh well, I guess we'll stay an atheistic anarchy." They'd elect one from among themselves.
The (0, 0, 0) characters should be a dime a dozen.
But even the historical aspect is secondary. What matters to me is that some features were shovelled in, but not actually tuned to work in game. We have such features as characters or diplomacy promised all over the place, but in practice those features barely limp along. They could have been great additions to the game, but as it is, they're a broken annoyance.
No, I don't think it's an extra to fix or, I guess, remove them if you can't fix them.
Plus, in most cases we're talking stuff that Paradox actually advertised.
"Watch your characters develop new traits through political intrigue and various interactions with thousands of other characters."... didn't exactly tell me to expect a half-baked and frustrating kludge there.
But, ok, I can live with paying to have the bugs fixed, I guess. Fine, I'm ok with getting that in an expansion pack. But please do fix them one way or another.
Yes, we need women!
And babies!
And stuff!
And maybe we could also rename provinces?
And yes, why must the player (the consul) appoint the governors?
Wasn't it the mission of senate to appoint governors?
Weren't the senators fighting for governoships and positions inside the republic?
were are the so famous ELECTIONS?
And babies!
And stuff!
And maybe we could also rename provinces?
And yes, why must the player (the consul) appoint the governors?
Wasn't it the mission of senate to appoint governors?
Weren't the senators fighting for governoships and positions inside the republic?
were are the so famous ELECTIONS?
That all is expected to appear in Vaes Victi, the expansion that FINALLY bring Internal Politics into the game.
I think rather then this "oh we'll spawn characters whenever the hell we like it" system there should be a couple of numbers representing how many characters in total could be spawned, and how good on average they are (with it going down as you use more). The more provinces that are your culture or any culture your country deems acceptable to have in its administration the higher your character pool should be (although not necessarily higher quality). For instance the selecuds who's official culture should really be macedonian (along with seleucia being macedonian, or possibly even removing the difference between greek and macedonian at all) would accept only macedonian and greek administration while they have a quite large empire to rule, posing interesting problems for them.
It's kind've silly that as my roman empire gets larger, I get more characters (and therefore more good characters) even if I don't get any more provinces of my culture even though all the spawned characters are roman/roman. Where were they before?
It's kind've silly that as my roman empire gets larger, I get more characters (and therefore more good characters) even if I don't get any more provinces of my culture even though all the spawned characters are roman/roman. Where were they before?
1.More women, esp.in early game.
2.More events.
3.Diplo option to "increase tribute". Sometimes I feel that a country could pay more tribute than it's currently paying and I'd like to be able to negotiate about this.
4.Countries should not DOW one-province Minors that are out of their reach. E.g. Carthage dowing Helvetia and Pontus DOWing Gaul tribes.
5.Fix the trade window popup bug.
6.Diploannex of tributary nations
7.Peace option to "demand cancel tribute" similar to cancel vassalization in EU3
2.More events.
3.Diplo option to "increase tribute". Sometimes I feel that a country could pay more tribute than it's currently paying and I'd like to be able to negotiate about this.
4.Countries should not DOW one-province Minors that are out of their reach. E.g. Carthage dowing Helvetia and Pontus DOWing Gaul tribes.
5.Fix the trade window popup bug.
6.Diploannex of tributary nations
7.Peace option to "demand cancel tribute" similar to cancel vassalization in EU3
GustavWasa said:
To fix this properly requires new coding - you might do better by pestering Johan to put it in VV.
The game has a method to prevent problems from too few characters. However, it has no method to prevent too many characters.
If you increase the initial pool of women, the likely result is too many characters after a few generations of breeding. Potentially, lots and lots too many, since the increase is exponential ;-)
I've not had any feedback that this is a problem from people using my Extra Women mod but it certainly is noticeable.
My game is broken
I am playing with Carthage after expanding the country from South France to Alexandria I have finished with the pool of characters. Yes I get "free" chars every now and then but the death rate due to age and illness is equal to the rate at which i get new character so I am almost constantly with 0 characters in the character pool. I can't even make diplomacy becuase of it most of the time :wacko: . Now this is something game breaking and we need a patch for this, not an expansion.
I am playing with Carthage after expanding the country from South France to Alexandria I have finished with the pool of characters. Yes I get "free" chars every now and then but the death rate due to age and illness is equal to the rate at which i get new character so I am almost constantly with 0 characters in the character pool. I can't even make diplomacy becuase of it most of the time :wacko: . Now this is something game breaking and we need a patch for this, not an expansion.