Patch Feature Request: loan timer

[Gunnarr]

No, it is not an answer. It is as much of an answer as "Don't play CK2, problem solved" to any gameplay-related question.

It is unfortunate you still do not understand why you are wrong.

The answer that was given is, to use a saying, to treat the disease, not the symptom. If you do not understand why this is not only an answer, but also helpful, then please think about it some more. Besides, you have not answered the OP's question, nor even attempted to do so.

Read the OP's post again:

"I would really like some indicator of when those silly merchants will be wanting their gold back, and if I should spend money on my economy or be saving."

He expressed doubt as to how he should handle his finances. We are giving him some advice. So why are you disturbed by this?

 

[nyah]

He expressed doubt as to how he should handle his finances. We are giving him some advice. So why are you disturbed by this?

Except the advice was just "handle your finances better". Which is hardly advice at all.

 

[Gunnarr]

Except the advice was just "handle your finances better". Which is hardly advice at all.

No, that was someone else.

I will put it in order for you.

I would really like some indicator of when those silly merchants will be wanting their gold back, and if I should spend money on my economy or be saving.

To answer the OP, keep at least 300 gold in the bank (in case you can't remember how much you need to pay). In early ages, you do need some time to accumulate 300 gold. In later ages, gold income is such that you are really unlikely to hit negative.

(Off-topic) I presume, with your banishment plans, tyranny is not an issue to you?

No, this is NOT an answer. He didnt ask for your opinion on how to manage his finances. There are endless scenarios where having 300g in your bank is not an option. And sometimes it's not even in your hands, f.e. when one of your cortiers with a debt dies. That debt transfers to you.

There is no sensible argument against such a timer, especially the "don't borrow money in the first place, shmock" argument.

Yes, it is an answer. You just do not like it.

No, it is not an answer. It is as much of an answer as "Don't play CK2, problem solved" to any gameplay-related question.

It is unfortunate you still do not understand why you are wrong.

The answer that was given is, to use a saying, to treat the disease, not the symptom. If you do not understand why this is not only an answer, but also helpful, then please think about it some more. Besides, you have not answered the OP's question, nor even attempted to do so.

Read the OP's post again:

"I would really like some indicator of when those silly merchants will be wanting their gold back, and if I should spend money on my economy or be saving."

He expressed doubt as to how he should handle his finances. We are giving him some advice. So why are you disturbed by this?

Again, this is the post Lessing, me, and Battle bunny are talking about:

To answer the OP, keep at least 300 gold in the bank (in case you can't remember how much you need to pay). In early ages, you do need some time to accumulate 300 gold. In later ages, gold income is such that you are really unlikely to hit negative.

(Off-topic) I presume, with your banishment plans, tyranny is not an issue to you?

 

[Lessing]

If there is a chance that, despite saving up, you won't have enough money in any given situation, and taking a loan helps rectify it, then a loan timer makes sense.

And the chance is there. We've given plenty of examples.

So no, "treat the disease, not the symptom" is not an answer, because there are enough situations were spending money and then taking a loan is the better option.

 

[Battle bunny]

It is unfortunate you still do not understand why you are wrong.

The answer that was given is, to use a saying, to treat the disease, not the symptom. If you do not understand why this is not only an answer, but also helpful, then please think about it some more. Besides, you have not answered the OP's question, nor even attempted to do so.

Read the OP's post again:

"I would really like some indicator of when those silly merchants will be wanting their gold back, and if I should spend money on my economy or be saving."

He expressed doubt as to how he should handle his finances. We are giving him some advice. So why are you disturbed by this?

The bolded part of the OP's post does not, in fact, mean what you think it does. You are as rude and unhelpful as ever.

 

[Gunnarr]

If there is a chance that, despite saving up, you won't have enough money in any given situation, and taking a loan helps rectify it, then a loan timer makes sense.

And the chance is there. We've given plenty of examples.

So no, "treat the disease, not the symptom" is not an answer, because there are enough situations were spending money and then taking a loan is the better option.

There are also many many more situations where one could avoid these problems all-together with proper management of finances.

I am not saying there is any problem with a loan timer. I have never been in a need to take a loan as it is certainly more beneficial if one avoids having to take one. So because we do not have anything to add about loans specifically, we speak about how the OP can improve in the future. Your examples about needs to take loans are not very persuading for me though. One example one said is inheriting debt. As far as I know, it is almost impossible to take in debt in this way because AI are not stupid enough to put themselves in large debt. Basically the only way one will find themselves in debt is bad management of finances, usually by hiring mercenaries that they cannot afford. Here, I will give some more advice to the OP: if you plan on hiring mercenaries, make sure you have the amount that it costs to initially hire them AND then estimate how many months you will need them and add the monthly prices for that number of months to the amount of money you will need before declaring war. And here is some more advice: when first starting the game, try building castle villages first.

I feel you are just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.

The bolded part of the OP's post does not, in fact, mean what you think it does. You are as rude and unhelpful as ever.

Yes it does. He said he does not know if he should spend his money or save his money while he is waiting for his loan to be demanded to be repaid. He is implying he does not know what to do with his finances. Sorry if you find me as rude, I do not recall being so. You on the other hand have just been insulting people ever since your first post in this thread (how ironic). Sorry if you think I am unhelpful but I guess this saying will fit here: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

 

[NewbieOne]

A loan timer would be cool to have. And possibly a tab to keep tab (erhm) on truces and the like. And something to tag potential brides and the like.

 

[Lessing]

There are also many many more situations where one could avoid these problems all-together with proper management of finances.

No way you can avoid paying 760g when your chancellor, after 10 years, finally fabricates a claim that is on a duchy, because if you let that chance go by, you're being silly.

That situation happened to me many times, sometimes even with counties because my income was so high and the price stupidly scales with income. It's sometimes just better to take a loan or take no loan at all and be in the negative for a while.

Management of finances has NOTHING to do with it. If you insist on keeping 1000g in your account to weather all eventualities, a rival could overtake your development by spending the same amount. Because uninvested money is dead money.

 

[Battle bunny]

Yes it does. He said he does not know if he should spend his money or save his money while he is waiting for his loan to be demanded to be repaid. He is implying he does not know what to do with his finances. Sorry if you find me as rude, I do not recall being so. You on the other hand have just been insulting people ever since your first post in this thread (how ironic). Sorry if you think I am unhelpful but I guess this saying will fit here: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

Nah, OP simply wished to know when the loan is due so they would know how much money they need to have saved up at a given time. In fact, it's you who tried to make the OP look stupid in order to have an excuse for not having to implement the feature - since in the world I live in, the OP's finance management skills are irrelevant as far as the usefulness of a loan timer is concerned. Admittedly, since you're not a Paradox employee I don't know what you have to gain from this, but you're still rude.

I don't need to answer the question, by the way, since there was no question, only a suggestion.

 

[nyah]

Because uninvested money is dead money.

Exactly. Keeping a large surplus is pointless. The number you need to care about is your budget deficit or budget surplus (preferably a surplus). Investing in order to increase that budget surplus is good economic management. If a crisis happens and a loan is taken out (for a 5% or 10% interest pa interest rate - I wish I could get a credit card with a rate like that), then that's also good economic management. You'll gain more by upgrading a castle town than you will by keeping the 200 gold and not taking the loan. In history, medieval economies were very badly mismanaged, it was only when proper economic theory was developed, including a system of government borrowing and debt, were governments able to manage their (and their nations) finances properly.

What gets me is not only are the detractors here wrong, they're also rude. Get over yourselves.

 

[Cuthuthulu]

No way you can avoid paying 760g when your chancellor, after 10 years, finally fabricates a claim that is on a duchy, because if you let that chance go by, you're being silly.

That situation happened to me many times, sometimes even with counties because my income was so high and the price stupidly scales with income. It's sometimes just better to take a loan or take no loan at all and be in the negative for a while.

Management of finances has NOTHING to do with it. If you insist on keeping 1000g in your account to weather all eventualities, a rival could overtake your development by spending the same amount. Because uninvested money is dead money.

This. I've had brief moments where I go into debt because I forge a claim. Then Send my councilor to the next county while I a build up my holdings. Then instead of forging a claim in a few years my counciler manages to do it within the month.

 

[yezhanquan]

I think it's time for PI to give us Jewish moneylenders. Can't repay that loan? Select the option that launches a pogrom to seize the assets of the moneylenders.

 

[Battle bunny]

I think it's time for PI to give us Jewish moneylenders. Can't repay that loan? Select the option that launches a pogrom to seize the assets of the moneylenders.

CKII+ has something you might like. (Jewish communities give you tax income, but you can also launch pogroms to sacrifice that income for immediate cash. Also on-demand loans.) I don't think Paradox will ever include Jews in the game though. From what I've read, they're too scared to offend sensibilities or something. It's laughable, really.

 

[yezhanquan]

CKII+ has something you might like. (Jewish communities give you tax income, but you can also launch pogroms to sacrifice that income for immediate cash. Also on-demand loans.) I don't think Paradox will ever include Jews in the game though. From what I've read, they're too scared to offend sensibilities or something. It's laughable, really.

Aye. I tried CK2+ for a short while, and saw the option. Also, with the Republic DLC, this exclusion becomes more glaring. The Italian merchant bankers came after the Jewish moneylenders, after all.

Pogroms and persecution are kosher during those days. When you are already smothering babies in cots for your plots, I don't see how this is any different.

In-world RP...

Your Steward: Sire, the loan we took some time back is due soon.
You: Can we pay?
Your Steward: We can, my liege. However....(whispers in your ear)
You (big grin on face): You rascal! That is a good plan. You'll get your share of their gold.
Your Steward: Thank you, my liege.

 

[Kanin_Usagi]

Yes it does. He said he does not know if he should spend his money or save his money while he is waiting for his loan to be demanded to be repaid. He is implying he does not know what to do with his finances. Sorry if you find me as rude, I do not recall being so. You on the other hand have just been insulting people ever since your first post in this thread (how ironic). Sorry if you think I am unhelpful but I guess this saying will fit here: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

No he doesn't? He's saying he wants a timer so that he knows whether he has time to focus on building other things first and when he should start saving.

Example: You have 400 gold. You want to build something that costs 350 gold. If the debt is due next month you probably won't want to buy it, but if its due nine months from now, you might make enough to make up for the 350 you spend. A timer would be VERY HELPFUL WITH THAT.

Money isn't a problem if you get far enough along, but I tend to spend it as soon as I get it in order to make my realm more powerful. If something come up immediately after I used most of my money, then loans are a huge help. I would love to have some sort of timer/alert about the moneylenders.

 

[Hastyr]

No he doesn't? He's saying he wants a timer so that he knows whether he has time to focus on building other things first and when he should start saving.

Example: You have 400 gold. You want to build something that costs 350 gold. If the debt is due next month you probably won't want to buy it, but if its due nine months from now, you might make enough to make up for the 350 you spend. A timer would be VERY HELPFUL WITH THAT.

Money isn't a problem if you get far enough along, but I tend to spend it as soon as I get it in order to make my realm more powerful. If something come up immediately after I used most of my money, then loans are a huge help. I would love to have some sort of timer/alert about the moneylenders.

This, thank you.

 

[postm00v]

I noticed something a while back, when I accidentally went into debt. I got 200 ducats on loan with a five year term and 5% interest, we all know that. But when the 5 years was over, I didn't have to pay back anything ! To make sure I wasn't confused about the date I waited 3 years extra, but still nothing.

Might be a bug though, or the fact that the save was from 1.07.

 

[Lessing]

CKII+ has something you might like. (Jewish communities give you tax income, but you can also launch pogroms to sacrifice that income for immediate cash. Also on-demand loans.) I don't think Paradox will ever include Jews in the game though. From what I've read, they're too scared to offend sensibilities or something. It's laughable, really.

I'd create my own Jewish ruler - Rabbi ben Beutelschneid - and kick some serious Christian and Muslim ass! Payback time, biatches! Matzah brei for y'all for the rest of your lives!

 

[Sam L]

Also there's no interest on these loans? I wish I lived in the Middle Ages. LOL.

 

[doubleskulls]

I think the original feature request is a really good idea, and having it would make me feel a lot happier about borrowing money. I generally never do it at the moment, partially because I often lose track of when repayment is due.

uninvested money is dead money.

I entirely agree. Only if I'm feeling particularly nervous about aggressive neighbours and want to have money on hand for mercenaries do I not spend money immediately. I go into negative cash all the time - due to fabricating claims - and only very occasionally feel any downside to doing so. I certainly feel having a few more improvements for the whole duration of the game more than offsets the downside.