Patch 1.4 - Supply

[RDG]

I am also worried about the ongoing inability to simply send supply to remote areas by the sea. Supplying whole armies anywhere in Africa or India by land connection is not really that realistic nor is it any fun. No general would have done that. For a good reason. Why didnt you guys recognize this? The game simulates the downside perfectly. Supplying garrisons in Dar-es-salam by train or truck from Berlin doesnt make any sense.
At least let us manage own supply shipping routes freely, if supply is badly needed in the vicinity of the destination port.
This is my major and one and only really serious complaint about HoI3. The supply menace seems to continue. Very sad...

 

[jju_57]

It sounds like these types of additional changes are too extensive at this time. You will have to wait for the expansion to see them. I guess it is what it is.

 

[johnbecool]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfChrist
What about shipping supplies through ports connected by land?

Sorry, this will work as now.

It seem to me it's normal, the actual system is based on port capability to receive supply and fuel, not as a port wich can receive unlimited supplies and fuel...


Good to know that the new system should work trough allied and puppets!!

 

[Athalian]

It seem to me it's normal, the actual system is based on port capability to receive supply and fuel, not as a port wich can receive unlimited supplies and fuel...


Good to know that the new system should work trough allied and puppets!!

the actual system is based on that if 2 ports is connected by land has 0 capability to send/recieve supplies between them. In what world is this normal??

that the system now works through allied and puppets might cause there to be a landbridge causing you to be unable to ship supplies there. Hopefully, this is not the case.

 

[flossy]

Really hoped the supply system would get a solid kick in the...trunk.

 

[Athalian]

Really hoped the supply system would get a solid kick in the...trunk.

me too

 

[RDG]

At least Pdox could enable us to mod the amount of supply a port can handle.

 

[Cybvep]

Same here. Let's just hope that puppet/allies supply transfer will work correctly.

 

[Alex_brunius]

It seem to me it's normal, the actual system is based on port capability to receive supply and fuel, not as a port wich can receive unlimited supplies and fuel...

No you misunderstand. Noone is asking for ports to be able to receive unlimited supplies and fuel. But for the ability to send supplies at all to ports connected by land to your capital.

 

[joeenochs]

It'd need a complete rewrite of the supply system, as I understand it. Supplies landed at a port in a supply network (which aren't used by units in the port) go from that port to the network's "supply source" and are then redistributed to units in the supply network. So if you could force a convoy from a port in the capital's supply network to land supplies at a port in the same supply network beyond a land bottleneck, those supplies would first of all be taken back to the capital, possibly further clogging up the bottleneck, and you'd be paying supply tax on a circular route...

Maybe there's some way of flagging supplies as "outbound" and "inbound", but then you have to manage that flag when the convoy is delivering to a port not attached to the capital's supply net, or it won't know where to go.

Would be some pretty deep rewriting of the supply system, and if they're going to do that, I'd rather they change the frankly appalling model that they chose to implement.

I don't think any of what you write is true. Supply is driven by supply demand. If most of your troups are beyond the bottleneck, then that is, where your supply demand is.

I don't think there is a principle problem with the idea of parallel supply through land and sea within the current system, as ports have limited capacity already. The sea route is just another route besides the many land routes, which go from province A to B.

 

[Modo]

Noone is asking for ports to be able to receive unlimited supplies and fuel. But for the ability to send supplies at all to ports connected by land to your capital.

Seconded. Just allow the available sea routes to be used as alternatives to land routes. That one change to the algorithm should be enough to have a useful system. You wouldn't have to add any player controls for this to work, so perfect for the AI as well.

 

[unmerged(79580)]

I don't think any of what you write is true. Supply is driven by supply demand. If most of your troups are beyond the bottleneck, then that is, where your supply demand is.

I don't think there is a principle problem with the idea of parallel supply through land and sea within the current system, as ports have limited capacity already. The sea route is just another route besides the many land routes, which go from province A to B.

You are missing his point, Joe. There are two scenarios.

1. You have no direct land access from your capital to a supply need. A supply depot is then created (via AI logic) along the supply chain to a port connected to that supply chain on both ends. One end is from your capital (source) and the other is connected to the supply depot that is created.

2. You have a direct land access from your capital to a supply need. No supply depot is created via the AI logic as your capital is the supply depot.

If you want to use ports in a simulation of scenario 1, when in scenario 2, the supplies would land in the port and go to the supply depot, as intended. However, your supply depot is your capital so the supplies just work their way back to your capital via the land route and would ignore your supply needs in the immediate area.

While this would alleviate certain bottlenecks, for a limited amount of time, it would do nothing to address the supply issues of troops in need during an 'Italy that conquered the Med only to have the supplies for Casablanca get routed through Istanbul' game.

 

[joeenochs]

Thanks, LuXun, I entirely see your (and womble's) point now.

Still there is a clear and simple algorithm to distinguish case 1 and 2. Ports could work in a different mode, if connected to the capital through a land route or in other words if "their" supply depot is the capital. Not sure how good this idea is
and of course if you are Australia and have conquered a big land mass in Asia, you are back to the original problem. It looks easier then distinguishing ingoing and outgoing supply though.

 

[unmerged(72130)]

Supply has been improved and a little rebalanced. In the interface thread you can read more about interface and map changes regarding supply as well.

- Landlocked areas without supply production will be attached to allied supply networks where possible.
- Being completely out of supply now reduces organisation daily.
- Air Transports can now ship less supplies.
- Rewrote supply logistics definitions to properly handle connected areas between puppets and non-puppets.

Woo I don't know whether to be happy or upset, because after 1.4 if supply is still a little off now you lose organization and Air Transports are less effective. I guess 1.4 will tell whether you get praise or burning torches That's why I play Paradox games though, you guys have balls of steel!

 

[Forster]

Since air transports are supposed to represent so many planes as opposed to other air units, should the amount of supplies transported really be decreased?

 

[Forster]

When fighting an allied war and and event like vichy triggers, your units shouldn't suddenly become out of supply and take forever to get back to your border like always happens with Italy. You ought to be able to pick up and leave.

 

[madprofmike]

"SUPPLIES!!!!" as a Asian duded in karate outfit jumps out of the closet (UHF-funny movie)

this seems to be one of the big problems with the game...uugghh how does it get fixed?? i can see the developers point and they are trying very hard and i think they may get something out to keep people somewhat happy.

personally i really like the idea of a priority level (from 1 to 3) for the units or the hqs.

in my fantasy world i call my mind. i like to see "Supply Depots" as something u can build on the map from levels 1 to 10 (each level means it can hold more supplies). so the AI just simply joins the capital to the supply depot in the fast shortest distance, then the supplies are moved to HQs( hqs are mobile supply depots) then to their units under them, so to make use of naval routes
u simply build SDs at a port and then at another port the AI would join the routes via sea, so on and so on and so on.

plus this makes supply depots very important targets for bombing or taking from your enemy, plus your supplies would be spread out over your supply depots not just your capital, so if u loose your capital u dont loose every thing.

ok enough i need to learn what programming language they are using and figure out the hard code and put up or shut up...lol

 

[dhazlett]

Supply has been improved and a little rebalanced. In the interface thread you can read more about interface and map changes regarding supply as well.

- Landlocked areas without supply production will be attached to allied supply networks where possible.
- Being completely out of supply now reduces organisation daily.
- Air Transports can now ship less supplies.
- Rewrote supply logistics definitions to properly handle connected areas between puppets and non-puppets.

Kallocain - three questions/points for you, mostly about Japan:

1) If we can trace supply through Manchuria now (as a puppet), would it make sense to build IC in Korea because that would contribute to the supply network directly rather than going through ports in China?

2) One of the key things that I think this addresses, but we should make sure, is that when Japan takes Degu their supply situation becomes *better*, not *worse*. Basically, the fact that a friendly port exists in occupied Shanxi shouldn't immediately transfer supply routes from Korea into Shanxi.

3) Finally, when Japan has made inroads into India and there is finally a 100% infrastructure province to use as a supply depot it should never move back to an 80% infrastructure province (or lower).

Thanks again!

 

[Bonte]

All i can say, is I hope the supply changes work with the new air supply nerf (was the only way i could MOVE units in china as japan)....

 

[unmerged(14719)]

Well I think this is a step in the right direction. I just hope the information is well.... 'informative'. Not a bunch of numbers which you'll need to decipher. If i wanted to do that, I'll run back to my board games

As I've said plenty of times, the most often overlooked part of a PI game is a more intuitive UI, something a person would instinctively understand. As it is, the whole supply fiasco is obscure to the point of frustration. o