Patch 1.4. Please Nerf the HRE (Austria)

[Silversweeeper]

Perhaps revoking a reform could work like Concede Defeat for something like 50-60% warscore (and the AI adjusted to understand that that is something you want to take rather than a random core revocation and some money)? That way, you could erode the emperor's power without needing to siege down all of Austria (and fighting off all their allies.

Another possibility would be a Revoke Reform CB, which would lower the cost of revoking reforms by a lot but give massive AE for everything else except money/treaty cancellations.

 

[Borne2Run]

About to happen in my Aztec game (going for sunset invasion achievement). Austria vassalizing everyone has killed my expansion plans. Even mighty France cannot hold back the 200k doomstacks.

Realistically: I think it is due to the Ottomans not rampaging through Hungary. Every game if they don't expand into the Balkans then the HRE gets time to centralize.

 

[Rubidium]

Realistically: I think it is due to the Ottomans not rampaging through Hungary. Every game if they don't expand into the Balkans then the HRE gets time to centralize.

That's probably an issue (and one due to the truly obnoxious Hungarian NIs), but it also seems to be due to the Reformation being so weak (where the AI just spams the other HRE minors with "convert or die" messages; and gets major authority boosts when some dinky minor like Salzburg returns to the Catholic faith). I would prefer for the Reformation (and especially the Reformed movement, which historically spread like wildfire) to be stronger, and the option to peacefully demand reconversion to be eliminated.

In my experience, the key factor in whether or not the Empire forms is whether or not Austria holds onto the emperorship. (and whether or not the player interferes, but that's obvious).

 

[GamingHUD]

Definitely of the opinion that the HRE gets formed too often if left to its own devices.

 

[Basterbane]

I know that Austria, HRE Emperor gets CB on electors but do HRE members or bordering nations get any CB against Emperor to revoke reform or they have to use other CB (or waste 2 stability) and waste 5 years of truce?

If I were France and saw Emperor pass reform after reform I would like to have CB to stop him. Maybe reform passing should give AE? It's not really aggressive expansion but it is potential threat to everyone that they border. Similar thing as "threat" could be added to PU's forming by decision (Poland + Lithuania) or normal PU's by luck or war (or do you get AE by getting PU via war?).

Maybe the whole AE concept is bad. Nation that get larger should generate constant "threat" level sometimes leading to Partitioning of biggest nations.

 

[TingJonKi]

practically every game with lucky nations on Austria forms the HRE

It either should be harder to form the HRE OR if you do form the HRE everyone should practically hate you OR the reformation needs to be buffed its so pitiful right now and enforce unity is basically free 10 IA!

Realistically: I think it is due to the Ottomans not rampaging through Hungary. Every game if they don't expand into the Balkans then the HRE gets time to centralize.

You can thank the crappy 200% maulus in Coring for that, why in the world did paradox do this when historically ottomans conquered congunry, no idea

 

[DM818]

In my last two observe games one Austria didn't manage to pass all the reforms though they did revoke the privilegia in around 1810 the next game it formed this which isn't particularly frightening much less so than the France that formed due to Burgundy being entirely fractured before the inheritance.

 

[xyra]

Austria and HRE both in one game at the same time.

i don't know who formed the HRE. But i know that Spain didn't conquer in the HRE. everything was inheritance.

Bohemia is under PU of Spain and Austria is under PU of Russia.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

When I'm playing out of Africa or Southeast Asia, Muscovy always seems to be more of an issue. In my Benin game they literally had a force limit of 250 before 1700AD, still growing. Allying them + Frace basically allowed an auto-win vs any nation they'd declare on, and gave me free reign to stomp down on Spanish and Portuguese colonies near me. Austria has only grown into HRE *and* become a true force in maybe 1/5 of my games, though it's still a small sample size. I don't see how the nation is particularly worse than Muscovy, a united France, or Great Britain long term though. Maybe in human hands .